Narrow necks let's look at theses specs.
Rick 360 12 Neck Width at Nut 41.4 mm (1.63'')
Fender Strat 12 Width at Nut 1.650” (42 mm)
Gretsch G6122-12, Country ClassicTM 12-String WIDTH AT NUT 1-11/16" (43mm)
Danelectro 12-string Limited Production Nut width: 1 3/4" (about 44.5mm?)
The first 3 are virtually the same neck width although the Danelectro is 3mm wider than a 360 Rickenbacker.
I can't find any specs.for the Fender XII's the Hockey stick / Jaguar /Jazzmaster(suprised this has not been re-isssued) or Coronado but I suspect they would be the same neck width?
From one nut to another ...
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trancedental
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trancedental
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I would think the old Fender XII /Coronado's have similar necks as mid '60's Jaguar/Jazzmasters?
From a EBay listing of a Fender XII neck "width at nut is 1 11/16 inches" So that's the same as the Gretsch CC 12 string!
Most Fenders are 1.65 apart from a few Strats & Teles at 1.85 usually '50's models.
So it looks like Rick 12 string necks are virtually no different in width at the nut to other makes of 12 string electrics?
Are the string courses closer together on the Fender XII than a Rickenbacker though?
With the strings being further away from the edges of the neck (especially on the older 360's with the binding) that would explain a lot of the difference?
From a EBay listing of a Fender XII neck "width at nut is 1 11/16 inches" So that's the same as the Gretsch CC 12 string!
Most Fenders are 1.65 apart from a few Strats & Teles at 1.85 usually '50's models.
So it looks like Rick 12 string necks are virtually no different in width at the nut to other makes of 12 string electrics?
Are the string courses closer together on the Fender XII than a Rickenbacker though?
With the strings being further away from the edges of the neck (especially on the older 360's with the binding) that would explain a lot of the difference?
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firstbassman
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Sorry guys, but if RIC 12s are no different in size than other electric 12s, so what. That's not the point. So they're all too slim. But this is a RIC forum and we're talking about RICS here. (I'd also venture to guess that RIC 12s outsell all those others COMBINED ten-to-one.)
The point is to compare it to ACOUSTIC 12s which have a 1.75 in. sized neck at the nut. (Same sized neck as 380L and 650, so RIC does make 'em.) MUCH easier to play.
The point is to compare it to ACOUSTIC 12s which have a 1.75 in. sized neck at the nut. (Same sized neck as 380L and 650, so RIC does make 'em.) MUCH easier to play.
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trancedental
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Has anyone ever tried a Rickenbacker 12 String with an Arnquist type modified nut & still had problems playing the guitar?
I've often heard of people even complaining about 6 string Rickenbackers being very hard to play yet it seems that the necks are the same size as some Fenders?
I've often heard of people even complaining about 6 string Rickenbackers being very hard to play yet it seems that the necks are the same size as some Fenders?
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I have issues with the necks as well, but that issue is overshadowed with another issue. And that is my playing sucks. So I keep it in perspective. 
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John, I still had finger space problems on my old 360-12 after it went through the Arnquist nut treatment. It was certainly a lot better than stock, but I was still damping strings sometimes, especially on open D and C chords. I don't have fat fingers, but they're big and rather square on the tips. That's why I went for the full-width re-fret when I got the 360-12WB, as it allows even more string spacing across the nut and fretboard. Suddenly playing the twelve got a lot more enjoyable. Naturally, you still need to play carefully, but I'm not having to concentrate anywhere near as much on precise finger placement or angle and I seldom damp strings these days.
I really think playability is a combination of both nut width and pairing tightness. A wide plastic nut doesn't make a guitar easy to play - it's how the string grooves are spaced out on the nut that can, so just comparing factory measurements of nut width may not be a very accurate way to predict performance. The nice thing about the conversion is that I still have that really slim, fast neck along with the slightly roomier fingerboard. Would I take a neck that was a couple millimeters wider? Probably, but I seem to be doing OK with this one now.
Being a bass player for 40 years (I only play guitar to annoy others) I can relate to Brian's comment as well. The typical bright, squeeky-clean tone that most of us like for Ric twelves doesn't hide errors very well. It's all right there in front with the treble cranked to the max. I can get away with all kinds of stuff on my Telecaster that just won't fly on the Ric twelve.
On the other hand, there's nothing else on the planet that can make that sound, so it's worth it. I'll sometimes stick a mic in front of my amp when I'm fooling around and just let the recorder run, in case I come up with anything that I want to work on later. This morning I managed to figure out what it would sound like if Roger McGuinn drove an ice cream truck (ignore the buzz, my JangleBox tends to be noisy).
http://webpages.charter.net/tbradshaw/ice%20cream%201.wma
I really think playability is a combination of both nut width and pairing tightness. A wide plastic nut doesn't make a guitar easy to play - it's how the string grooves are spaced out on the nut that can, so just comparing factory measurements of nut width may not be a very accurate way to predict performance. The nice thing about the conversion is that I still have that really slim, fast neck along with the slightly roomier fingerboard. Would I take a neck that was a couple millimeters wider? Probably, but I seem to be doing OK with this one now.
Being a bass player for 40 years (I only play guitar to annoy others) I can relate to Brian's comment as well. The typical bright, squeeky-clean tone that most of us like for Ric twelves doesn't hide errors very well. It's all right there in front with the treble cranked to the max. I can get away with all kinds of stuff on my Telecaster that just won't fly on the Ric twelve.
On the other hand, there's nothing else on the planet that can make that sound, so it's worth it. I'll sometimes stick a mic in front of my amp when I'm fooling around and just let the recorder run, in case I come up with anything that I want to work on later. This morning I managed to figure out what it would sound like if Roger McGuinn drove an ice cream truck (ignore the buzz, my JangleBox tends to be noisy).
http://webpages.charter.net/tbradshaw/ice%20cream%201.wma
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trancedental
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Sounds Good Todd! Nice playing!
I've got a Diamond Compressor at the moment which sounds great for my Ricks.
I'm going to try a set of Thomastik strings next , in the same gauges as the standard Rickenbacker sets.
I've got Pyramids on there at present but find they are a bit stiff & lifeless also a few have broken already so I'm not impressed.
I'll try making a new nut later on but have the 330 12 nut at the moment on my 360 12 so I'll see how I get on.
Seems much better than it originally was, I've got pointed / sloped / tapered fingers, probably average sized hands, BTW I don't like playing Strats because certain obscure chords are too wide for me to finger properly!
I've got a Diamond Compressor at the moment which sounds great for my Ricks.
I'm going to try a set of Thomastik strings next , in the same gauges as the standard Rickenbacker sets.
I've got Pyramids on there at present but find they are a bit stiff & lifeless also a few have broken already so I'm not impressed.
I'll try making a new nut later on but have the 330 12 nut at the moment on my 360 12 so I'll see how I get on.
Seems much better than it originally was, I've got pointed / sloped / tapered fingers, probably average sized hands, BTW I don't like playing Strats because certain obscure chords are too wide for me to finger properly!
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firstbassman
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RE: "I have issues with the necks as well, but that issue is overshadowed with another issue. And that is my playing sucks."
Oh, yes. I've said the same thing several times here. My issue with strings being too close has nothing to do with having so-called "big hands." (In fact my hands are on the small size.) It's because I'm such a poor guitar player. That's why acoustic 1.75 necks are so much easier.
Oh, yes. I've said the same thing several times here. My issue with strings being too close has nothing to do with having so-called "big hands." (In fact my hands are on the small size.) It's because I'm such a poor guitar player. That's why acoustic 1.75 necks are so much easier.
I find my 360-12 neck is a little narrow for my also-fat hands, but it does make it much easier for me to do barre chords, and it's also easier for my fingers to fret 2 (ok, well 4) strings at once. Think of a barred 'F' chord and being able to fret the D & A strings at the 3rd fret with just my ring finger.
Actually, that makes it preferable to me. That's the style of fretting I usually do, and it's a lot easier on on Ric 360-12 than it is on a big old Gretsch. Yeah, I know it's not good style but I've been doing that for 40 years. And actually until I started visiting this forum about 18 months ago I never even considered it was too narrow!
So I don't disagree with others who are frustrated with the neck width, but it works fine for me.
Todd, loved your tune! I'm gonna go try and figure it out. It sounds like a Christmas display tune to me more than an ice-cream truck!
Actually, that makes it preferable to me. That's the style of fretting I usually do, and it's a lot easier on on Ric 360-12 than it is on a big old Gretsch. Yeah, I know it's not good style but I've been doing that for 40 years. And actually until I started visiting this forum about 18 months ago I never even considered it was too narrow!
So I don't disagree with others who are frustrated with the neck width, but it works fine for me.
Todd, loved your tune! I'm gonna go try and figure it out. It sounds like a Christmas display tune to me more than an ice-cream truck!