Tips for a novice (jazz?) bassist?

squirefan01 · Post by **squirefan01** » Sun Sep 03, 2006 6:01 pm

First of all, for any of you that have been playing for years, devoting your life to music, I appreciate the time you may take to read this and provide comments!

A little background first...

When I seriously started playing the bass last year, I took lessons for a few months, and immediately headed in a direction of boning up on basic theory as opposed to technique. I am glad my teacher started me down that path, and I quickly piled up so much data that I found it best to break from formal lessons for awhile just to catch up on all there is to know at this point.

I am staying committed to balancing my own practice time between theory, technique and just plain memorization. It's going well and I find that I am doing OK without the lessons. I was mostly worried about not practicing if there was no commitment to meet with my teacher, but there has really been no problem there. I do plan to get back to lessons once I feel pretty solid on the basics, which I guess for now would be:

1) Good feel to basic theory, at least the parts that are used the most in the music that I like to play (rock and beginning jazz).

2) Strength & control of my hands (fretting and fingering...I started with a pick to be like Squire but I have dropped that for the basic 2-finger method).

3) Fret board knowledge. Call it memorization but also a confident feeling of moving around the fret board using scales.

That's good for starters. So you can see where I am at now. I am really loving it, but I have a long way to go (part of the fun though, right?)! Once I get through the above on my own, I do intend to get back to lessons with a well defined idea of what direction I want to go in.

So nowadays, I grab tabs and play tunes along with the bands that I like (phases of Pearl Jam, Pink Floyd, Beatles, 70's rock). I also work on scales alot. I have gotten many books and have abandoned most of them. One tool that I LOVE right now though is Ron Greene's Bass Solo Dial (http://www.musicdials.com/bsolo.html). This thing is easy to use and is a great tool to play scales all over the fret board. This is my main tool for scale practice. It also comes with a CD with many music style samples that have just drums & bass (each on their own channel so you can phase the bass out and play with the drums only). I play using the dial, along with that CD or the drum beats on my electronic keyboard.

Going forward, I really like the idea of improvisation, and look at some forms of jazz that I am really into. An example that I discovered from this forum was the band DropTrio ([url=http://www.droptrio.com...streaming]www.droptrio.com...streaming[/url] on the site if you want to listen). I love this style. I also really like Jeffrey Scott's band (yes, you are an inspiration to me Jeff). That is the kind of music I would like to play if I ever got together with a band.

So now I think of what I should really be learning to be a good jazz bassist. I would love to hear tips from anybody in this area. Maybe a list of 5 things that MUST be ingrained to succeed?

One question on improvisation. Sometimes I wonder about my own meaning of "improvisation". Is it just laziness on my part to feel that I can just noodle along without organization? The times that I mess up and just head in a new direction because it sounds right to me, but may have just totally abandoned the flow of the music...that may be way off from what jazz playing is all about. That is what I am looking to clear up here as well.

I'll stop here for now.

Thanks in advance for any comments!

rictified · Post by **rictified** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 4:02 am

I have never done this and am not a good jazz bassist but I would learn chords on a piano, you build your bass lines from chords, also listen to a lot of upright players, they are usually the best jazz guys. Ron Carter, Ray Brown, many others Christian McBride is a monster, many great players from the golden age of jazz, 50's and 60's. Just think flatted 5th.

jdogric12 · Post by **jdogric12** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 4:33 am

For bass, you want a good command of the fretboard first. Think of a child learning to read. At first, they go "B... L.. U... E.... Bl... Blaaaa... Blue!" But with a little time the child simply sees the word "blue," processes it all at once, and says "blue" without thinking of the individual letters consciously.

Once you can play a Db, for example, without thinking "Db," you have made a lot of progress. This command will be used mainly in walking bass lines. For this, you need to understand your chords. It sounds like you're on the right track by studying a little theory.

Let's say you're reading the lead sheet for "Cherokee," a very fast and difficult jazz standard. The chords are flying by at a mile a minute. You won't have time to think to yourself, "Okay, here's a Bb chord, so I'll walk on Bb D F G Bb G F D Bb D F G Bb Ab G F, and then on the Eb chord I'll go to Eb G Bb C..." By this time you're over eight bars into the tune, and left way behind in the dust.

Rather, your mind should recognize the Bb chord as "Bb D F G" as instantly as you recognize B-L-U-E as the color of the sky on a clear day.

Don't start by learning Cherokee, though! Get your twelve-bar blues down first. Plenty of tunes in this genre are played at a medium or slow tempo, making it easy to play along as you learn. And please don't just learn the key of E! Many jazz standards are in flat keys for horns.

Try to avoid open strings if you can, even if you ARE in the key of E or A or D. This will help you learn the fretboard even better.

Whew! Hopefully this info isn't too overwhelming. It's easier than this post makes it sound. Please keep us posted on your progress, Greg, for the benefit of all of us here.

Maybe teach me the lick from Roundabout sometime???

firstbassman · Post by **firstbassman** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 6:34 am

I pretty much agree with Bob and Jason. Chord Theory, Harmony and the Fretboard Knowledge are all important. One footnote to that though - I don't like the term "memorizing the fretboard." Bassists are lucky in one respect - the fretboard is completely logical and patterned. We don't have a (high) B string to mess things up.
When I teach, I tell the student, bad news -there are 48 notes on the fretboard to memorize (4 strings x 12 frets) then it repeats. Good news - you really only need to know a few of them. And learn the relationships - where the fifths are, where the thirds are, an octave and so forth.

One last thing, that is VERY important. And I am passing this down from the master (Jack Casady) to me: tone is the most important thing. If one does not have good tone, all else is useless. In other words, if you sound bad, all the knowledge and flash in the world ain't gonna help ya. And tone comes from the fleshy part of the fingers on the right hand (if one plays right-handed).

I recently saw (the current version of) Chicago at Wolf Trap. And the first thing I noticed about the bass player was not how flashy he was, or his choice of runs but what good tone he had. What Jack would call a nice full, warm, bass sound.

squirefan01 · Post by **squirefan01** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 6:50 am

Thanks Mark & all,

I hope to be able to see "BLUE" instead of "B-L-U-E" someday. I think that practice & repetition must help, and I can imagine what a great feeling it must be to have such command!

As far as tone, I do find that I play towards my finger tips too much, especially when I try to play faster. Need to get back to that fleshy part of the fingers. I can always hear the difference.

Thanks for setting this area up. It's a bit hard to ask for advice from such seasoned vets, but this forum always comes through and I really appreciate that.

rictified · Post by **rictified** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 4:28 am

Yes, I agree about the sound, if you don't have a good sound all is for nothing pretty much. you want to make sure your sound projects into the room you are playing in. You can go from a deep bassy to a trebly sound by moving your hand toward the neck. While I play I am constantly moving my hand depending on the type of sound I want for the type of music I am playing. I don't anchor my hand or if I do I make sure I can move it without thinking about it. You can get an almost pick-like sound by plucking near the bridge for ex. Try not to set your tones on your amp too extreme. The flatter you set the tones the more you will be able to project the sound and the more you can control your sound with your hands. I set up early and play a little and listen to the room and adjust the tones from there, the best way to start is to set the tones flat and listen and experiment if you don't know the room. Placement of your amp makes a big difference also, an amp placed in the corner of a room will have a lot more bottom than one in the middle, lots of tricks you will pick up.
I also agree about the blues, you can learn how to play with feeling playing blues, you can also learn how to improvise and listen to the whole band and adjust and play along with everyone else playing blues.
I always liked Peter Cetera's playing and sound from Chicago. If you want to learn jazz you might want to try flatwounds, many guys now use rounds but to me they just don't sound right in jazz, they sound out of the pocket. Many bass players forget their first job is to provide the bottom, don't fall into the trap of wanting to be a lead bass player unless you are a one in a million talent, know when and when not to do it and are able to pull it off and not get nasty stares from the rest of the band.

firstbassman · Post by **firstbassman** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 8:10 am

"If you want to learn jazz you might want to try flatwounds, many guys now use rounds but to me they just don't sound right in jazz, they sound out of the pocket. Many bass players forget their first job is to provide the bottom, don't fall into the trap of wanting to be a lead bass player unless you are a one in a million talent, know when and when not to do it and are able to pull it off and not get nasty stares from the rest of the band."

Bob, amen, you are right on the spot. I totally agree.
When I think "jazz bass" I want to hear full warm tones, like an upright bass. I hate that tinny bright sound that has become the fad with six, 8 and 12(!) string basses.
In addition, btw, to flatwounds, Fender makes a black nylon covered string that I put on one of my basses for the once in a blue moon when I play something jazz-like. Very nice tone:

http://stringitup.stores.yahoo.net/fennyltapbas.html

rictified · Post by **rictified** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 11:42 am

You can't beat that price either Mark, how do they compare to regular Fender flatwounds in tension and sound?

firstbassman · Post by **firstbassman** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 11:37 am

Sorry Bob, I can't compare them to other Fenders. Have not used any other Fender strings.
Bass #1 has GHS "Boomer" Ground-wounds and bass #3 is only six/eight months old and still has its original strings. (Never got around to changing them.)

squirefan01 · Post by **squirefan01** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 9:34 am

I did switch to flats recently...using D'Addario Chromes now (due to many recommendations here).

Great tips all around. Thanks!

jdogric12 · Post by **jdogric12** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 2:20 pm

Well, Greg? It's been ten days since this thread started. Have you picked one or two tunes or scales to work on? I'm just curious to see how the originator of this thread progresses, because I know you will.

squirefan01 · Post by **squirefan01** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 3:46 pm

Hi Jason,

I was out in Seattle/Olympia for business & pleasure and then making up for lost time with the family this week...and now camping on the Cape this weekend. The bass sits idle right now, but thanks for asking. Can't wait to get back to it!!!

jdogric12 · Post by **jdogric12** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 2:10 am

Johnny Cash's "I've been everywhere, man" comes to mind... have a safe trip back home Greg!

wayang · Post by **wayang** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 11:46 am

Hmm, 'tips for a novice (jazz?) bassist'...now, how can I be of some help here...

How about this: "Go easy on the free lines of 'blow'..."

(Gee, that even sounded like it could be musical advice...)

squirefan01 · Post by **squirefan01** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 7:54 am

Just thought I'd chime in again and mark my progress a bit. I have been working diligently and consistently on scales and general playing since I started this thread. It's hard to measure progress verbally, as I am really not playing any songs these days...just jamming with scales. If somebody comes to my house and asks me what I can play, it seems like jamming doesn't mean as much to them as being able to play "Free Bird" or something! However, to me there is great progress being made and I am moving all over the neck.

I love to turn on my Yamaha keyboard, just having it play out any kind of drum beat (CoolJazz is my latest favorite) and I can just play along to that for hours. I'll get my 7-year old daughter (who is actually pretty good on piano, taking lessons) to play the keyboard if she wants to.

So scales...I started out with standard major/minor scales, then went to 1-3-5 Arpeggios, and now alot of 7ths (sometimes dominant major or half-diminished minor) in major/minor. Also, the standard blues scale and Pentatonics. Just trying to learn all of these and jump around between them a bit. With alot of these, I'll stick with a pretty standard 1-3-5 progression or use my Circle of 5ths to figure where to go next.

One thing that I still need to work on is where the roots are on the fret board. I still have to think about it alot, only knowing C well enough to jump between the Cs on the board quickly.

I am trying to get the above down, since I really want to get into walking bass lines. I still have no idea how to predict what will sound good in a walking progression, going between different roots & different scale types. I found a pretty good lesson in ActiveBass that I have been going through...

http://www.activebass.com/default.asp?iTarget=http%3A//www.activebass.com/cgi-bin/page_view.pl%3Fl%3D12460%26p%3D1

...but any other pointers to lessons about walking would be appreciated.

Actually, just typing this out from work tells me that I have at least learned something in these recent months.

And Dane, thanks for the tip!

-Greg