FENDER AND THE BARNUM PHILOSOPHY

johnallg · Post by **johnallg** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 4:06 pm

Paul, I don't understand why you say it is selfish gratification if someone who can afford a Relic series Fender goes ahead and gets one. Why should it matter that it is a grossly overiniflated price if they can afford it and willingly pay that price? What makes it selfish?

Without trying to put words in your keyboard, are you saying that money could be better spent elsewhere? Or is it just that Fender's willingness to grab onto the vintage market's crazy ride rubs your sensibilities the wrong way?

How does that differ from walking into a pawn shop, finding a $150 instrument you know is worth $1000, and getting it to flip? Yet I believe any of us would do just that. There is already a debate on another forum here about not notifying a green ebay seller when a Rick is underpriced, but allowing another forumite to jump on it.

jingle_jangle · Post by **jingle_jangle** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 5:34 pm

Selfish gratification is a term I should have qualified better. I did not mean this as necessarily a condemnation, John. I may be a hard a** when it comes to some things (well, a lot of things--it's not just my arteries that are hardening...) but I see a lot of shades of gray, and taken without qualification, the term sounds very negative.

We all need selfish gratification-the pat on the back that we give ourselves when we engage in "retail therapy" is a good case in point. This thread, again, was meant to explore the folly of overpriced goods. People's motivation in indulging is certainly a part of this, but should be regarded in light of individual circumstances. Someone who takes food out of his family's mouth to indulge his GAS, is one end of the spectrum, and that type of selfishness is negative in its effect. A moneyed collector/player who says, "what the hell" and writes a five-figure check is self-indulgent in his gratification, but hurts nobody, probably not even himself should he feel buyer's remorse in the light of a cloudless morning.

Money can always be better spent elsewhere in an absolutist world (ask George Soros), but that's not my spiel here.

Nothing wrong with taking advantage of an opportunity in a situation such as you describe. But where do we draw the line? Our hyper-consuming culture has its sharks and its lambs. Large corporations, because of their responsibility to consumers as well as their stockholders, need to pay attention to the balance between the two and their sometimes-conflicting needs. It's a matter of degrees, and it's directly tied to the size and (most important) to the public presence of the corporation in question.

This is getting heavy...time to put Caetano onto the stereo (in Luddite 200G vinyl) and grab a caipirinha.

dale_fortune · Post by **dale_fortune** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 5:48 pm

I don't believe they are over priced. The Guitars made at the Custom Shop are priced as they are because they are made in the USA with American made hardware and domestic woods. The Imports are priced low because they are mass produced in other countries with low standard parts and economy labor. This is not Rocket Science just plain ol' economics that fills the supply and demand quota. There is a lot of work,time and effort that goes into making a Relic Vintage Guitar. 1st it's a new instrument, then it's taken apart and each individual piece and part gets special attention to make them look like they've been played everyday for 20 or 30 years. If you like that look, and have the money, I say go buy one and fulfill your dreams and desires, after all what's wrong with that.

winston · Post by **winston** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 8:52 pm

I have a number of Fender instruments and some of them are the more expensive re-issues. I am a bit of a Fender nut I admit. I also have a couple of Gibson products. Personally I hate the idea of exporting jobs but our respective governments don't seem to be a bit concerned about that notion at all.

I would never shell out the cash required to buy a customized relic. I can do that myself to a guitar over time just by being clumsy or careless. I do try not to do that but as any musician will tell you, sh*t happens.

I understand Paul's argument but I do think that he has stepped onto a narrow path with his view. It is not a popular approach that he has taken but I find myself being very sympathetic to his cause. However I often shop at Walmart so obviously my wallet is dictating where I shop.

The dilemma I have is that my wallet dictates actions that go against what my heart is telling me I should do. In most cases but thankfully not all the wallet wins. That's just the plain truth of it.

Fender has made some great products over the years. I often find myself wishing that CBS had never bought them. Who knows how that would have turned out though. Perhaps they would have been lost in the mists of time?

jingle_jangle · Post by **jingle_jangle** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 5:36 am

"The dilemma I have is that my wallet dictates actions that go against what my heart is telling me I should do. In most cases but thankfully not all the wallet wins. That's just the plain truth of it."

...For nearly all of us, Brian! That's why I wouldn't waste my disposable income (hard-earned by RESTORING old and worn-out guitars, ironically) in buying new, worn-out-by-the-factory-intentionally-at-a silly-price, guitars.

I did just now have a real flash of brilliance--I'm going to hock my collection, cash in Juliana's small college fund, and take public transport for awhile (well, a couple of years, anyway).

I'll then take the money from this, and buy 5 of the Jeff Beck Relics, and RESTORE THEM!!!

I mean if they're getting $15K ($11K at Sam Ash) for ONE in such BEAT UP condition, just imagine what 5 in MINT condition would be worth!

I could finally retire!!!

jingle_jangle · Post by **jingle_jangle** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 5:41 am

Here's what one would look like, incidentally...I can hardly wait!

jingle_jangle · Post by **jingle_jangle** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 5:48 am

,,,and here's the before:

What a DIFFERENCE, as you can see...

sowhat · Post by **sowhat** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 6:01 am

Ooh! Please don't say you're willing to bring them improved (specially designed) things back to the original state! That's too cynical! Mwahaha.

jingle_jangle · Post by **jingle_jangle** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 6:03 am

You're confused, Sheena...it's ME who's doing the improving.

sowhat · Post by **sowhat** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 6:08 am

Oh yeah. That'd be quite a revenge for that new Fender trend - or an insult. Mean, they've spent time and money to do what they suggested to be right... and then some guy from California comes and shows them another way, and all the results of their work now seem to be in vain. The most effective way, eh?
(just kiddin')

jingle_jangle · Post by **jingle_jangle** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 6:13 am

That's cynical, Sheena.

And sarcastic.

sowhat · Post by **sowhat** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 6:25 am

I dig the joke.

sowhat · Post by **sowhat** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 6:59 am

Another way:
1. Buy an artificially aged "Jeff Beck".
2. Restore it.
3. Sell it to - yeah, Jeff Beck, of course.

jingle_jangle · Post by **jingle_jangle** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 8:49 am

And watch him beat it to a pulp? I couldn't bear it!

sowhat · Post by **sowhat** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 8:56 am

But then, you could restore it... and re-sell it to him for a bigger price! And so on. An inexhaustible source of money, enough to get Juliana's grandchildren through the college!