1968 4001 on eBay---Cheater!!!

banta · Post by **banta** » Mon Jun 16, 2003 5:19 am

When you see an obviously fraudulent listing like the Gibson Jeff mentioned that has one persistent bidder, it is likely that it's a shill bidder. A shill bidder is a fake set up by the seller to entice legitimate bidders or draw them into a bidding war. I've caught several of these on ebay and they subsequently had their accounts closed.

robj · Post by **robj** » Mon Jun 16, 2003 5:36 am

Until I e-mailed this guy on Friday night and told him his bass was a 4003 and made in the mid to late '80s, he didn't list the serial number at all. He did so once I told him were to find it and provided a link to the RIC website where he could find the decoder. I also e-mailed back the date and month of manufacture, he never did reply to either of my e-mails.

rictified · Post by **rictified** » Mon Jun 16, 2003 10:54 am

I also did the same thing, he or she (the reason I say that is that whoever it is, has bought a lot of womans clothing) is now telling people that the serial number is HI, I have been thanked by three different bidders so far. This is a deliberate attempt to pass off a newer bass as an old one, whether it started out as a an innocent mistake or not is now immaterial, they are trying to pass it off as a 68. I will continue to warn bidders as there is nothing Ebay will do. One man was from England!

jeff_ulmer · Post by **jeff_ulmer** » Mon Jun 16, 2003 11:13 am

Interestingly, it is strictly against ebay's policies to contact the bidder of an auction, which is why it is so hard to get email addresses through them. They want to discourage informed buying.

It certainly does pay to have forums like this where that which is a sham can be shed some light on. I'm sure the majority of bidders wouldn't know how to identify a '68.

paul_yan · Post by **paul_yan** » Mon Jun 16, 2003 11:24 am

Way to go, my Righteous Brothers!

Bob,
I suggest you introduce this Forum to the bidders and make them register as a way of thanking you. There will be more informed potential RIC bass lovers around the world.

rictified · Post by **rictified** » Mon Jun 16, 2003 11:49 am

Paul,I actually did that with one of them who wrote me a long letter, I didn't do that for the other two, just in case it was a front for the seller, I wouldn't want to expose the forum to an angry person who blamed the forum for being unable to sell their bass, you never know.

paul_yan · Post by **paul_yan** » Mon Jun 16, 2003 12:08 pm

Indeed.

dave4004 · Post by **dave4004** » Mon Jun 16, 2003 1:36 pm

Yes, I understand you risk being sanctioned by eBay for interference with another person's auction if you do this. Never mind that you're exposing potential fraud.

ricnvolved · Post by **ricnvolved** » Mon Jun 16, 2003 1:40 pm

If eBay bothered to police itself the way it should then it wouldn't have to worry about vigilantes like us. ~LOL~

Seriously though, as I said in an earlier post, greed is the only reason eBay allows **** like this to happen. They'll never care about honest auctions until enough people keep raising a stink about it. Buying & selling through eBay can be a very good thing, but obviously a person needs to be extremely cautious.

dminer · Post by **dminer** » Mon Jun 16, 2003 5:59 pm

Of course, it wouldn't be against ebay rules for a bunch of people to bid on this bass and then retract their bids when they discovered that the seller was mis-representing the item! Then, if an interested seller at least checked for bid retractions they would know that something was "Rotten in Denmark", which, buy the way, is a wonderful country.

mortivan · Post by **mortivan** » Tue Jun 17, 2003 2:14 pm

I must have clicked on a hundred links before I came to a page where I could report this! And that's because I reported it on the "Offensive Listing" complaint form! (I'm offended that the seller is trying to defraud people.)

Now if only Mr. Hall would report him - he seems to have a direct line ...

rictified · Post by **rictified** » Tue Jun 17, 2003 2:50 pm

I was directed to report it as a misleading ad, now all I have to do is find out where in that maze that is Ebay, and I have asked directions.
And by the way, The 5th bidder who was notified and thanked me was outbid and bid again!

ricnvolved · Post by **ricnvolved** » Tue Jun 17, 2003 3:42 pm

Bob-- As long as that person is fully aware of the facts concerning the manufacture date of that bass, then there's not much else anyone can do. However, I still strongly disagree with someone continuing to bid on an item when the description remains uncorrected. Doing so does nothing to discourage sellers who are deceitful in their listings. I'm highly skeptical that eBay, IF they find out about this deception in time, will take any substantive action against the seller. We shall see.........

jazzsmith · Post by **jazzsmith** » Tue Jun 17, 2003 4:42 pm

It is my conjecture that "grandejohn" is the seller, acting as his own shill - note that he is a less than 30 day member with no feedback.

rictified · Post by **rictified** » Tue Jun 17, 2003 5:24 pm

I just repeorted the person to "misleading titles" or something like that, and I think you are right about grandejohn, jazzsmith, when he e-mailed me back, there was something odd about his e-mail, he asked me why I had told him, or something to that effect. I just said that I hate to see people gettimg ripped off. He'd be better off saying that it was a Silver 1988 4003, there aren't a lot of those around, he'd probably get more money for it.