'77 4001 truss rod and nut adjustment

arnod · Post by **arnod** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 9:18 pm

Hi everyone,
I'm new here & also new to Rickenbacker since I've just bought a nice '77 4001.
This bass needed to be tuned (I should say repair):
- Nut is missing
- truss rod is bent (threaded part) and fretboard has popped up on 2 inches
this is what I've done so far:
- Glued fret board back into position
- before repairing truss rod, I checked neck relief to see if it was ok. There was .010" at 8th fret (capo on 1st fret, last fret depressed). seemed ok to me.
- bought a new nut (black Rickenbacker 4001/4003 nut replacement). Glued it.
This is where the problem begins: nut seems too low. 3 strings are touching 1st fret. nut is definitily too low.
Before starting shimming the nut, I read almost all topics here covering truss rod and nut set up and decided next to repair truss rod to see if it could fix the nut problem. I removed truss rod, made it perfectly straight and now I'm going to put it back.
Here are my questions for you 4001 gurus : I'm almost sure that the fixed truss rod won't give me enough nut height to avoid fret buzzing (unless I give lots of relief to the neck which isn't a good thing for 4001, right ?). Can you tell me those of you with a perfect 4001 set up what is the good distance between nut slots and fret board to avoid fret buzzing on 1st fret ?
Also what should I use for shimming the nut ? plastic ? wood ?

thanks a lot for your answers and sorry for my not so good English (I'm French).
Arnaud

beatlefreak · Post by **beatlefreak** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 2:29 am

Given the problems that you've listed above, I suggest you find a competent luthier to help you get your bass back to optimal performance. Make sure the luthier is one who is knowledgeable with Rickenbackers.

dale_fortune · Post by **dale_fortune** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 2:57 am

Use a .020 black plastic shim and welcome to the Rick Forum

j_gary · Post by **j_gary** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 3:13 am

Welcome Arnod, well done on the English. I wish I could communicate as fluent in French as you have in English.

Sounds like you are on the right track with your repair. Dale has offered some good advice on what to try next. Good luck with your efforts.

arnod · Post by **arnod** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 4:05 am

thanks guys for your answers,

Dale, where to buy this black plastic shim ?
Another question, as this is the 4001 I'm repairing, on truss rod, the threaded steel part is on the bottom side of the neck not on fretboard side (on fretboard side is the non-threaded steel arm), right ?
I just want to be sure previous owner did not put it back the wrong way.
thanks for your help
Arnaud

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 4:12 am

the old 4001 had a weird truss rod system ... to adjust properly you detune the strings and loosen the rods then you manually adjust the neck and when you get it where you want it you tighten the rods ...

most basses you move the neck by adjusting the rods ... when you try this on an old 4001 the fret board will pop off ... that is the down side of the old truss rod system ... the up side is once the neck is set the bass can go many years without needing another adjustment ...

the new Rickenbacker basses 1986 and later have truss rods that work like other basses and are easy to adjust ...

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 4:15 am

as per shimming the nut I use wood paint stirring sticks ... I trim them to size and paint them black and glue them in ... the sticks I use are about the thickness of a fat guitar pick and they are the same width as the nut ...

dale_fortune · Post by **dale_fortune** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 5:10 am

You can use wooden shims as Jeff points out. I use black plastic because you don't need to paint it. The black plastic material can be found at suppliers in the USA such as TAP Plastics or Sign Shops that make signs with acrylic and vinyl. Jeff has given you good advice on adjusting the older style truss rods. Another thing to remember is: make sure the threaded tip is bent up just a little on the rod so it makes it possible to get the adjustment tool on the nut after they are in place. Threaded side down when looking at the top of your Bass. Rub the rods on a candle(wax them) this allows them to slide in the slots easier.

arnod · Post by **arnod** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 6:09 am

yeah that's the way I do to adjust truss rod following all your advice. But it seems like I have to bend the neck a lot just to have a .010 relief, not less. I feel like I'm at the point of breaking the neck (while bending). Impossible for me to have no relief at all. Is this possible ?
I pulled out the truss rod. It is ok. I put it back (slided easily).
But it's still hard for me to adjust it with no relief. I bent the neck a lot, I tightened (while bending) the nuts as far as recommended (not too much)but still a bit of relief (which is fine) but I'd like to try with a perfect straight neck.
Also I know it requires a bit of measuring job for you but what are your specs regarding action (nut height regarding fret board, string height at 12th fret and 1st fret, neck relief...)
thanks
Arnaud

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 7:16 am

most Rickenbackers will adjust to have a completely flat neck ... and on most Rics that is the best adjustment ... some Rics are best with a slight up curve ...

arnod · Post by **arnod** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 6:58 am

Hi there,
I'm still fighting to get a perfect straight neck. I can't go less than .020 for neck relief.
I'm following the right procedure for neck adjustement (bending and next tightening nuts).
Could there be something wrong with truss rod ? I inspected it, it is straight and in good shape.
Could it be that the neck is so wrong (twisted, curved...) that a bent truss rod can't hold it in place ?
Arnaud

johnhall · Post by **johnhall** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 7:39 am

I need to jump in here- all references by Arnaud have been to "truss rod", as in a singular rod.

That needs to be clarified, because if there's only one, he's at the wrong forum.

beatlefreak · Post by **beatlefreak** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 9:32 am

Welcome back, John - Excellent point.

I'd still recommend that the bass be taken to a competent luthier to sort out these issues, especially since you're having a difficult time getting a straight neck, Arnaud.

arnod · Post by **arnod** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 8:49 pm

Yes it is a dual truss rod (4001 from 1977).
Yes Kris, I should take it to a luthier but it will cost me at least $500 for sure so I'd like (to a certain point) to do basic set up myself first.
I say basic because it seems everyone here is saying that getting a straight neck is easy and I can't. That's why I'm asking about the possibility that a dual truss rod could not hold the neck into place (not keeping it straight).

beatlefreak · Post by **beatlefreak** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 4:05 am

Most guitars use a single truss rod, and still manage to adjust a neck properly. If a single one works, a dual will have no problem. Most Ricks use a dual truss rod system to correct for minor neck twists.