Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum

firstbassman · Post by **firstbassman** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 6:29 am

Having just had my first open mic experience with a strictly acoustic guitar, I’ve come to the inevitable decision that I need some kind of amplification for my Martin 12-string. Anyone have any recommendation on a good cheap/easy solution?

GHS has a couple of easy-looking “clip-on” mics but I’ve heard that feedback is a problem. Maybe not?

Martin is recommending their “Gold Plus” under-the-saddle pickup but it (and others from Baggs, Fishman, etc.) say they should be “professionally installed.” And Baggs and Fishman each have about a half-dozen different models to choose from. Very confusing for a non electronics techie.

Preferences:

• I don’t want any holes cut in my guitar.
• A strap-jack would be nice but if a wire is hanging down the front, I can live with it.
• My Martin has a sort of warm tone and I’d like to keep that as much as possible (as opposed to a “bright” sound) but at my level of playing it is a secondary concern.

Any assistance / opinion appreciated. Thanks! - Mark

alanz · Post by **alanz** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 7:34 am

I have a factory-installed Gold Tone in my B-1 and a dealer-installed Fishman in my DM and I think they sound great - very full sounding. The battery life is also excellent.

In both cases I did not opt for the control panel installation and have guitar strap outputs.

Highly recommended mod.

beatlefreak · Post by **beatlefreak** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 8:41 am

I like the Fishman bridge transducer also.

jingle_jangle · Post by **jingle_jangle** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 10:16 am

I am using the LRBaggs iMix system for the Rick acoustics which I'm building, after auditioning a couple of others. This system has two different transducers--an iBeam and a film, under-bridge unit, along with a three-band adjustable parametric EQ. It does involve some work on the bridge, and drilling a hole for the strap jack, which is why they say "pros only" for installation.

But the sound is excellent with all the possible adjustments, and I would say that your warm tone is achievable with this unit.

ken_j · Post by **ken_j** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 11:59 am

Paul, Can you separate the two and play just the iBeam or just the film? If so can you comment on the iBeam only?

jingle_jangle · Post by **jingle_jangle** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 12:29 pm

I have done this, as the output is selectable and in stereo or mono to boot. The stereo/mono switch is located on the preamp module, so it's not accessible on the fly, but the mixer pots are on the soundhole edge and easy to get to.

In mono mode, one pot controls master volume, and the other controls mix between the two pickups. It's possible in this case to turn the mixer all the way one way or the other, or to blend infinitely between the two.

In stereo mode, each pot serves as a separate volume control assigned to each pickup.

Generally speaking, the iBeam is the warmer of the two, with the ribbon Element providing the "cut" to bring out the guitar's ability to project a good deal more.

The flexibility of this system is excellent, and it allows one to experience stereo "Rick-O-Sound" through an acoustic!

ken_j · Post by **ken_j** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 12:50 pm

Thanks.

steve_hershberger · Post by **steve_hershberger** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 2:55 am

Paul, is that iMix system relatively new (like in the last 3-4 years)? Sounds like a fantastic unit.

A few years ago I installed an active iBeam in my Guild and it sounds great to me. Wanted the least invasive process - no drilling through the saddle slot & top - so all the iBeam requires is to drill out the hole for the strap jack. Easy to do with a Unibit. The whole installation took a couple hours but that's because I didn't want to mess up anything and took it slow and careful.

I use it in conjunction with the Baggs Para/DI box which I'd recommend for use with any brand or model of acoustic pickup - it's really flexible in terms of EQ, phasing issues, and driving long guitar cords.

All in all, my Baggs set up sounds pretty much exactly like my Guild sounds acoustically, but louder.

Just some general acoustic pickup comments:

1.) It's hard to choose one because, for the most part, you can't try them out in advance on *your* guitar. In the case of Fishmans etc., you can try out the factory installed models in many guitars, but for the many other brands (Baggs, Pickup The World, etc.) you'll have a hard time finding those pre-installed on any factory A/E guitars. So, after all the research, you just need to bite the bullet, pick one out, and hope for the best.

2.) Never did like those soundhole pickups - had a Lawrence in the '70's but it sounded horrible compared to the modern versions. Well, Richard Thompson's Sunrise pickup sounds great, but it's big money...

But for the average soundhole pickup, you'd do a lot better putting that money towards a good under the bridge (or under the saddle) pickup. And, if you get a soundhole pickup that has the cord hanging down in front of the guitar it WILL get on your nerves quite soon.

3.) Get some kind of active pickup. Meaning preamp in the strap jack assembly and an internal battery. You can then use normal length guitar cords out of the guitar.

No need to saw up the side of the body for a control panel - just get the Baggs Para/DI box for volume and EQ controls and you'll be all set.

firstbassman · Post by **firstbassman** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 5:03 am

Guys, thanks VERY much! Especially Paul and Steve for your lengthy and instructive comments.

After doing a little more research (and also asking on another forum) the sound-hole pickups seem to have some big negatives: making the guitar sound too electric and having the darn cord hanging down. But it IS convenient and I can switch it (if need be) to my six-string acoustic.

I'm told that Martins are pre-drilled under the saddle so that's good and I know the hole for the strap button is already there (though it has to be made a little larger to fit the jack connector).
But I agree Steve, I am NOT (never) going to saw off a big hole on the side for a control panel. I know a zillion factory installed acous/elec have that but the thought of cutting a big hole into my Martin just makes me cringe.

freshmattyp · Post by **freshmattyp** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 6:26 am

Depending on the soundhole pickup you choose, they can sound every nice. After trying pretty much every system under the sun, I settled on the Sunrise. The downside is, they are not cheap, and you really need to use the matching preamp to get the best out of the system. My main acoustic has this setup, and I could not be more pleased. A close number 2 is the Fishman Rare Earth.

eatswodo · Post by **eatswodo** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 6:38 am

You also have to be careful with soundhole pickups on 12-string guitars - the plain, octave strings can end up overwhelming their wound partners. I've read that this can be worked around by using electric guitar strings. There's a lot of useful information here: http://www.fingerpick.com/pickups.htm - scroll about 3/4 of the way down for the 12-string section.

ken_j · Post by **ken_j** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 9:09 am

I have seen Laurence Juber twice. Both times he played his signature Martin. The first time he used a Seymour Duncan Mag-Mic sound hole pickup. It had a great acoustic sound, not electric sounding at all. I cannot tell you if he used both the magnetic portion, the mic portion, or both. He did have an outboard preamp/eq. The second time he just used a microphone. Both concerts were at the same location, a local church. The Seymour Duncan Mag-Mic pickup is something that you can try ahead of time.

According to LJ's web site this is his acoustic set up for live performances:
Martin Custom OM18CVLJ Prototype #2 [Mahogany/Adirondak Spruce]
Martin OM28LJ Prototype #1 [Brazilian/Adirondack Spruce
Seymour Duncan Mag Mic pickup customized with an Audix mic capsule and a split output
DTAR Solstice Preamp and Equinox Equalizer
Lexicon MPX110 Reverb
Monster cable
Peterson Tuner
Neumann KM140 mic
GHS LJ Signature Bronze True Medium strings

loverickbass · Post by **loverickbass** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 9:56 am

Don't want to drill a hole? No problem.

http://www.kksound.com/vintagejack.html

firstbassman · Post by **firstbassman** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 2:44 pm

David, that was an amazing site, thank you!

Thanks to everyone again for their very informative comments.
After much self-debate I have decided to give the Fishman Rare Earth Humbucker a try.
I'll let you know how it goes.

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