Just ordered 4004/5 Cheyenne II

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Fri Jun 27, 2003 11:01 am

ok put it this way ... every serious bass player needs to own at least one 5 string bass ... otherwise there are a whole lot of new songs that you just can't play right ... those low notes really make a difference ... unless you play country or old 60's rock you will run into songs where you need to play a note lower than your E ... detuning is cumbersome ...

I have one 4 string bass and it sits it a case under a bed .... when I play Creed, 3 doors down, Puddle of mud and modern stuff like that I need the B string ... this is not optional ...

I was anti 5 string for many years ... until I got my first 4003s5 ... I kept playing it until it felt right and I reprogramed my brain ...

ricnvolved · Post by **ricnvolved** » Fri Jun 27, 2003 11:27 am

Guess I'm just not a serious bass player then, along with about 75% of the other bass players in the survey. (And I wasn't even in the survey.)

The advantage and convenience of having the low B string is undeniable. But I have yet to hear even one 5-string bass, regardless of namebrand, that has the low B clarity to make the instrument worth having. Practically none of the music I play "requires" a low B anyway.

I seriously doubt that the 75% who prefer a 4-stringer are dominated by old-timers alone. It would be highly interesting to know the age demographic comprising that 75%. I'm still guessing there are relatively few younger players in that group who will see the need to join the other 25% anytime soon. But for those who do, I say go for it. "The wave of the future be with you."

rictified · Post by **rictified** » Fri Jun 27, 2003 11:32 am

Old guys playing old music, I guess that's me, but I don't own a Hofner, I had one years ago when I was a young guy playing new music, haha. I love your posts Jeff. I would like a nice 5 string Ric though, I tried a 4003s/5 a few times and the string spacing was too tight for my fingers, I would still buy one though. And I agree with you about AOL (Antichrist on line) but I'm leaving for Perú again for a year, and there I use Internet cafes, the telephones lines are like they used to be here before the telephone monopoly was broken up; expensive. They charge by the minute for local calls after 4 hours a month.
And I think it is great of John Hall to make himself accessable to all of us here like he does, especially considering that most of us here are anal retentive pissers and moaners. Present poster excluded of course, haha.

ojobob2 · Post by **ojobob2** » Fri Jun 27, 2003 12:16 pm

I Think Rickenbacker is a "strange" guitar company, they are not one of the massive mass - producers (Fender/Gibson), neither are they one of these small brands youve never heard of. Rickenbacker is one of the "big names" in guitars, yet they seem to operate along very strict traditional line - and thats no bad thing. I guess thats why the waiting time for new models is so high.

jeff_ulmer · Post by **jeff_ulmer** » Fri Jun 27, 2003 12:18 pm

I'm always finding a reason for that lower than E note, but agree with Jeffrey that most tend to be poor sounding, including my S5.

pma · Post by **pma** » Fri Jun 27, 2003 12:42 pm

Saw the post concerning Rickenbacker not wanting to compromise quality and I'm all for that, however, if you can't keep pace with demand:

- Don't offer new models when you can't produce enough of the existing ones.
- Increase capacity while maintaining the quality manufacturing process.
- At least tell your customers the leadtime when orders are being placed or have this clearly stated on the website.

It is truly bad business practice to say you have a product when you actually don't.

Paul

lshaia · Post by **lshaia** » Fri Jun 27, 2003 1:10 pm

Paul, your incoming message bumped mine from the posting area (tube powered computer), but I was in pre-agreement with you. What I was writing when I got bumped was the following:

I don't think anyone is suggesting that Ric should forego quality for output, or that Mr. Hall isn't accessible, or that Ric is completely indifferent to the people who purchase Ric instruments. The original question was about delivery time; despite all of the discussion it remains a mystery to me why, with waiting times in excess of a year (or longer to judge by past postings), Ric continues to take orders for something which either doesn't yet exist or is so rare that waiting times should be described as "indefinite". I for one don't happen to think that this practice is in the customer's best interest.

jeff_ulmer · Post by **jeff_ulmer** » Fri Jun 27, 2003 1:40 pm

I would agree it's not in the customer's best interest, especially when many dealers require deposits up to 20%. I also agree with Paul's points.

dave4004 · Post by **dave4004** » Fri Jun 27, 2003 1:49 pm

Nothing I play requires a 5-string either. I suppose you do need it if you're doing exact covers of music written for a 5er, or writing your own specifically for 5, but otherwise, no.

Most younger bands on the indie/garage/punk scenes have 4-string bassists. And I could tell you stories about a guitarist I gigged with in the 90s, he would just go ballistic if another band on the bill had a 5er, or worse yet if he heard them slapping.

bottom4 · Post by **bottom4** » Fri Jun 27, 2003 2:05 pm

Peter, I totally agree with what you said about Mr. Hall. I can tell you that John and I have exchanged e-mails numerous times and I believe he has been very honest with all of my questions. There are a number of reasons why Rick is behind, one of them being high demand, but that’s not the only reason. I run a fairly large supply chain operation for a global company and I could tell from some of his comments that he is faced with a number of challenges. I will not say any more about that, it’s not our business.

I initially thought that June would be the lucky month for me to get my 4 string 4004Cii, I'm beginning to think otherwise now. From some info John shared with me and other info he had mention on this very forum, I thought I had it figured out. Maybe it won’t be June, I’m now hoping for early July. I go on holiday in mid-July and nothing would be better to spend a lot of time with a new friend.

It’s been 473 days since this bass was ordered and I just recently learned that Rick changed the headstock to all maple (I ordered a natural so I would have a second bass with the walnut wings) so I have been really disappointed lately. All and all I still wouldn’t sacrifice quantity for quality.

Don’t think for a second that John Hall isn’t concerned with such a long lead-time. He’s a smart man. He knows what’s at risk. He has us diehards for sure, but he could be missing a new era of diehards by not having guitars and basses hanging on the walls in shops. I’m sure he’d sleep a lot better at night if he could work out a few of his kinks.

Keep plugging along John – I’m still waiting – frustrated but waiting.

And if you could make me a natural 4004 Cii with walnut wings I’d love it – just one last bass with wings!

Cheers,

Andy - 473

shamustwin · Post by **shamustwin** » Fri Jun 27, 2003 2:51 pm

Yeah, I'll agree if you gotta play copy tunes of this era, then you gotta have five strings. But like synths of the '80's that is a "now" sound in rock, and perhaps it may come to be that rock will stick with it, I kinda doubt it. Possibly just to me, but it sounds old and cliched already. It sure seems the 'signature' of this phase of rock, though in "smooth jazz" a low b seems to have been around since, well, the '80's.
We'd just finished our set recently, and the band coming on a few sets later came up and talked for a bit, so of course we had to ask "what do you play?" They were waiting for that, and their eyes got big as they pronounced "it's modern, but newer and way heavier, 'cause we tune to C#, not D!!!" I'm going to start a band where everyone plays bass, and we'll put an octive box on everything, going an octive lower than B!
Now indulge me a bit here on a different subject. If any other corporation had the boss reading and responding to customers' likes and dislikes, I'd bet that boss would be there exactly 5 minutes before shutting down his or her computer. Mr. Hall is surely one of a kind to take a personal interest in what his customers feel, and even respond directly. All his other CEO buddies must think he's nuts! Three cheers, Mr. H!

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Fri Jun 27, 2003 5:43 pm

I love the low B for blues, jazz, rock, classic rock, modern rock, etc ...

I am not a heavy metal fan but heavy metal made the deeper lower notes part of the music mainstream ... in the old days bands used the PA for vocals ... now everything is miked into a big PA with 18" subwoofers ... a fuller bassier sound is the mainstream ... ya I know counrty is still twangy ...

I was playing an old stones song ... and with the 5 string I was able to play a low D during the chorus ... later I watched a video of the gig ... those low notes really added a full modern sound to an old classic rock song ...

In the old days we played higher notes and turned the bass up ... the problem was then the treble and mid became overwhelmed ... this was part of the reason for the capaciter and the stereo ric-o-sound features ... but with my line 6 pod and a modern amp and a Ric 5 string I can get the treble bite, mid punch, and deep lows ... I love it ...

ricnvolved · Post by **ricnvolved** » Fri Jun 27, 2003 6:41 pm

~LOL~ Dave-- That's a good story concerning the guitar player going ballistic when he heard a 5-string bassplayer. Truth be told, it doesn't bother me at all what anyone else chooses to play. But I personally have absolutely no use for anything other than a 4-stringer. Others can certainly play whatever they want and it makes no difference to me.

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Sat Jun 28, 2003 1:34 pm

Jerry ... the band where everybody plays bass ... it's been done ... Spinal Tap .. Big Bottom ...

The first 5 string bass I saw was a fender one from the 60's it was hard to find a low b string back then ...

I was just looking at a Warwick catalog ... just about every model they make comes in 4 and 5 string models ... some of them 6 ...

rictified · Post by **rictified** » Sun Jun 29, 2003 4:39 am

I think those Fender V's had a high C Jeff, I'm not positive though. I saw a band in 1969 with a Fender V and a 3 15" Kustom amp, blue sparkle.
I saw one of those Fender V's at the GC in Natick Ma. last year, I was going to check it out, but no time.