Ric pickups, the differences

rickcrazy · Post by **rickcrazy** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 2:36 pm

I see. Just curious: what year is this 360?

sloop_john_b · Post by **sloop_john_b** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 3:51 pm

Bob, it sounds as though your rig may just need to be tweaked depending on which guitar you use. If you're averse to the idea, try RIC humbuckers, try some overwound Toasters.

I only bring it up because my experience with higain pickups (On my '02 330) is vastly different from yours. Going through a modded TS-9 and a new AC-30, the tone can be MONSTROUS, comparable to Townshend's 70's huge rock sound. And while that's not a sound I particularly use, it's nice to know how versatile these pickups really are.

telebob · Post by **telebob** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 2:07 am

Sergio, it's an '05 or '06.

John, if you go to www.therockaholics.com and listen to the sound samples, "Hurt So Good" was done with my Ric. It's a considerably weaker sound than the rest of the songs.

Note: There are no effects on any of the rythm sounds except reverb. It's just straight in to my Rivera and a little tweak of the knobs. One of the other guitars I'm using has P90s and the other, a Firebird bridge p'up with two Strat p'ups.

rickcrazy · Post by **rickcrazy** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 3:10 am

Well, a modern 360 having weak high-gain pickups on it is a first to me. I sure would like to peek inside those. Whatever is wrong with them should be immediately apparent. Has the guitar ever been tamperd with in any way?

telebob · Post by **telebob** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 3:46 am

No tampering. The p'ups aren't real weak, just not quite as bold or crisp as I'd like them. The guitar has a bit less presence than my others. All 17 of them! LOL!

ken_j · Post by **ken_j** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 7:01 am

Quote: "...'it crunches as good or better than a full size Gibson humbucker', wow, I wish I could get that!"

Tony I will have to agree with you as far as gain goes, the Rick HBs are nowhere close to my SD '59s, Gibson '57, or 490 series pickups, but I had no problem pushing the Rick HBs to the amount of gain that I like with my Boogie DC-5. I still prefer the Gibson style HB and wanted something different for my 650.

Recently I modded a set of high gains for my 650. (Thread in Winding with the Best.) I removed the pole pieces and installed 1/4" dia. poles with toaster covers. Plenty of gain and growl there but not a HB sound. This may be the answer for Bob.

telebob · Post by **telebob** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 7:31 am

Interesting Ken. I hear what you're saying but have no idea how to go about it. I've never had these p'ups apart. Just not my thing.

I definitely prefer the tighter, more focused low end of a single coil, or mini-humbuker in the neck position. I also like to set my p'ups a bit lower than is recommended. I like "giving them a little air." It seems to give me a bit more "wood" sound and a bit less "pickup" sound. It also requires that the volume be run a little higher on the amp which of course adds a nice touch of compression. But even with my Ric p'ups set real high, the 360 doesn't match the output of my other guitars.

soundmasterg · Post by **soundmasterg** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 11:02 am

Anthony, my 230 is from 1989 so it has humbuckers in it. Before '89, they used the "semi-active" single coil design. I've never played those ones myself. I believe, and maybe Mr. Hall can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that the 230 humbuckers are the same as the modern RIC ones, except for the way they mount in the guitar. The humbuckers in my 230 use Samarium Cobalt magnets, which are quite powerful. They're also somewhere around 12k each, which is pretty hot. They're as loud as another guitar I have that uses a Seymour Duncan Full Shred in the bridge position. Since they're a thinner (side to side) pickup than a standard Gibson full size humbucker, the coil sensing window is smaller so they do the high end better, and don't have quite as much lows. But what they have really makes the mids stand out, and when up loud, they have a note definition that the Gibsons never have....the notes just ring out too like most RICS.

If you're playing a Marshall JCM 800 or JCM900, they are pretty bright amps, and using the RIC pickup through it would be pretty bright I'm guessing. The Gibson pickup may be a better match tonally for those amps. Using my RIC with the AC30 or a Mesa Dual Rectifier, it sounds better than the typical Gibson style humbuckers, which tend to sound dark through both amps. I've also used it though a Sovtek Mig-50H Midget, which is similar to a JCM800, and it sounds great there too. I use flatwounds on this particular guitar to reduce some of the high end harshness of these pickups. Mr. Hall has said before that he doesn't consider these pickups harsh, but since everyone hears differently, that makes sense. Using the flats changes the tone quite a bit, though its harder to bend strings of course. I was thinking of selling the guitar years ago before I tried the flatwounds, and ever since, its become my favorite guitar for powerful riff type songs. It just doesn't work at all for blues though. Too dirty sounding, and can't bend strings easily enough.

Bob, one of the reasons your neck pickup in your 360 may sound muddy to you could be that the hi-gains are not scatter wound pickups like the toasters are. Scatterwinding seems to make the tone overall more natural sounding, and also gives a better response to the highs, and tightens up the bass. You could have Sergio rewind them and make them scatterwound. You could also try putting in a more powerful ceramic magnet, which would boost the output and also make the highs a little more present at the same time.

ken_j · Post by **ken_j** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 11:03 am

You might try changing to a stronger magnet or adding an additional magnet to your high gains for extra output.

ken_j · Post by **ken_j** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 11:07 am

Greg as I was typing you beat me to the punch.

I thought that current HBs had Neodymium magnets.

soundmasterg · Post by **soundmasterg** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 4:05 pm

Ken, its funny how that works sometimes!

I know the 230 HB had samarium cobalt, but I have no idea about the current HB's. I would guess that they're still samarium cobalt, but maybe Mr. Hall can set us straight?

telebob · Post by **telebob** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 4:47 am

So Sergio, do you have something that might work for me? Do you sell p'ups?

tony_carey · Post by **tony_carey** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 5:10 am

Thanks for your explanation Greg...it all makes sense. My Marshall is an old one, that was developed for the late '70's rise in humbucker equipped bands & does have an overdose of top! The power from a humbucker is a combination of low end & mid range punch, which I have found that the Ric 'bucker can't match on a full blown humbucker. I totally accept that the mid & top is there, but without the 'tightness' that you get with a solid bottom end.

Like I said, great sounding, but different. That is not a bad thing in any way, as I can see that it will be a stunning sound for many, but it's horses for courses & I suppose that no gtr does it all!

soundmasterg · Post by **soundmasterg** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 8:56 am

Anthony, it sounds like you have a 2203/2204 '75 to '81 JMP Marshall? Those are nice amps, but yes they can be bright....especially if they're using the EL34. You may try using a different speaker setup with speakers that aren't as bright as what you have currently. Theres no way that one guitar can do "all" the sounds.....same as no one amp that can do all the sounds. Thats what you need one of each!

tony_carey · Post by **tony_carey** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 9:18 am

Greg...you're spot on with the amp...well done!

My 4x12 of choice is an old Marshall slant bass cab & the combination of the two gives me my ultimate sound , which has been complimented on time & time again. I have a Marshall straight gtr cab which doesn't sound as good, but on bigger gigs, when I use the full stack....it's fair to say that the earth moves in the same direction as me!