Ely, first off, Rickenbacker's design allows for truss rod removal without removing the fretboard. But most other manufacturers' designs do not, and it may be that the repairmen you've contacted just aren't familiar with them. You need someone who knows them.
Also, if you have a 4001, you cannot just turn the truss rod and expect the neck to move. You have to manually move the neck into position and then tighten the rods to hold that position. The 4003s have the redesigned modern system where you can move the neck using the rods. Do you have a 4001? If so, that may be part of the problem.
78 4001 resurrected thanks to John Hall
Moderators: rickenbrother, ajish4
I have always done that will all my basses, even 4003's and Fenders, only I just call it taking the string pressure off the neck (which is really what you are doing) so the nuts will turn easily without the added pressure of the strings, I just push the neck backwards a little bit. I don't think that it is necessary with 4003's but it doesn't hurt. The necks never really stay where you manually hold them either, they always come back a little bit, unless I'm not doing it correctly. I usually repeat until the neck is where I like it, or the nuts are too tight, then I wait until the neck has relaxed a little bit, then do it again, and so on. When I post I try to anticipate all possible questions a person could possibly have, probably half the people skip my long posts, but that is OK as long as I help the person with the original question. We all have different terminology here, I try to read all posts and see the commonality between posters. I have learned a lot here in my short three months as a member.
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ely
hi again!
that's really cool. so do I undetstand correctly that the "double" truss rod is really one rod with both ends sticking out? What a great idea!
so how does this compare with other truss rods? does a single rod require an immobile nut at the body end?
I've got 2 basses with neck/set-up issues: a 4001v63, and an unusual Ovation solid body bass called a "Magnum".
The v63 is wonderful machine, but very finnicky, and for all its "hi fidelity", the quirks seem all the more apparent. First and formeost up is a dead spot on the "G" of the D string. Changed strings (roto flats)--still there. So I tune down to move the resonant tone away from the node. This improves matters somewhat, so that's what I gotta do. However, this leads to fret buzz on heavier strings. So I raise the bridge. Then the strings run into the horseshoe covers, so I raise that pickup. The neck pickup won't go any higher (anybody have any advice on this point?), so I have a bit of an imbalance between the pickups... (I guess its all down to the dead spot--don't they check these things before they sell them for thousands of dollars?)
So as for the neck adjustments, there's a bow, but it seems to work in my favor because the strings are a little slack. Did I mention that in spite of all of this it still feels & sounds great? Ideally I'd like a straighter neck and a higher bridge, were it not for the pick up issue.
The solid-body Ovation is a very interesting bass. Two humbuckers and a 3 band EQ on the instument provide a wide range of sounds, (mostly in the Gibson/Guild neighborhood). The bass has an unusual body shape--no cutaways-- from dark wood and weighs a ton. The long scale neck is a bolt on, and has a single truss rod a bolt to tighten (like Rics), rather than one that takes a hex key/allen wrench. It is actually this bass that has the unresponsive truss rod. Experts on this instrument are few and far between, hence I thought I'd pick a few brains around here...
that's really cool. so do I undetstand correctly that the "double" truss rod is really one rod with both ends sticking out? What a great idea!
so how does this compare with other truss rods? does a single rod require an immobile nut at the body end?
I've got 2 basses with neck/set-up issues: a 4001v63, and an unusual Ovation solid body bass called a "Magnum".
The v63 is wonderful machine, but very finnicky, and for all its "hi fidelity", the quirks seem all the more apparent. First and formeost up is a dead spot on the "G" of the D string. Changed strings (roto flats)--still there. So I tune down to move the resonant tone away from the node. This improves matters somewhat, so that's what I gotta do. However, this leads to fret buzz on heavier strings. So I raise the bridge. Then the strings run into the horseshoe covers, so I raise that pickup. The neck pickup won't go any higher (anybody have any advice on this point?), so I have a bit of an imbalance between the pickups... (I guess its all down to the dead spot--don't they check these things before they sell them for thousands of dollars?)
So as for the neck adjustments, there's a bow, but it seems to work in my favor because the strings are a little slack. Did I mention that in spite of all of this it still feels & sounds great? Ideally I'd like a straighter neck and a higher bridge, were it not for the pick up issue.
The solid-body Ovation is a very interesting bass. Two humbuckers and a 3 band EQ on the instument provide a wide range of sounds, (mostly in the Gibson/Guild neighborhood). The bass has an unusual body shape--no cutaways-- from dark wood and weighs a ton. The long scale neck is a bolt on, and has a single truss rod a bolt to tighten (like Rics), rather than one that takes a hex key/allen wrench. It is actually this bass that has the unresponsive truss rod. Experts on this instrument are few and far between, hence I thought I'd pick a few brains around here...
Ely...As for your Ovation Magnum, you could try asking Steve Barr over at the Vintage Bass Trading Company....
http://pub206.ezboard.com/bthedudepit
I believe that he has owned and loved the Magnums for years and he would probably know more than most people about those basses or he could probably send you in the right direction for correct info.
http://pub206.ezboard.com/bthedudepit
I believe that he has owned and loved the Magnums for years and he would probably know more than most people about those basses or he could probably send you in the right direction for correct info.
For the third time, (knocked offline twice) it sounds like you have serious problems with your neck being out of adjustment, usually if you have to raise the strings so high that they hit the cover and are too far away from the pickups that means that the truss rods are too tight, but what you had said before in your earlier posts led me to believe that they weren't engaged at all. When they are too loose (not engaged) usually you will have to lower the bridge too low, so I am confused, I would take this bass to someone who knows Rickenbackers, it sounds like it is seriously out of adjustment, and this could lead to permanant neck problems which are hard to reverse. Rickenbacker are not shipped like this, did you buy this bass brand new?
Eli, the 4001v63 has the modern trussrod system. I've never had the trussrods out but AFAIK it does not use the old folded rod method.
I agree with Bob, try very small rod adjustments (in either direction) to see if the dead spot will go away. But Roto flats are high tension, that could very well be part of the problem. They may not feel tight but they sure put a lot of lbs. of tension on the neck.
I agree with Bob, try very small rod adjustments (in either direction) to see if the dead spot will go away. But Roto flats are high tension, that could very well be part of the problem. They may not feel tight but they sure put a lot of lbs. of tension on the neck.
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ely
hi folks,
RE: "Roto flats are high tension... They may not feel tight but they sure put a lot of lbs. of tension on the neck."
-I thought flats were supposed to be looser, hence the "4003 double truss rod making round-wound strings standard" line.
at the moment, the dead spot is not gone, but better enough to live with.
ya know when I first took it to a pro (at Rudy's on 49th St NYC), the neck was perfectly straight, and the first he did was loosen the truss rod! Friends of mine who get pro setups say they do this becasue the area (volume) used by the vibrating string is curved, therefore so should the neck be. Well I sorta balk at this, but it does play well like this. The only problem is the imbalance between the pickups. And I can't make the horseshoe any lower or the neck pickup any higher.
RE: "Roto flats are high tension... They may not feel tight but they sure put a lot of lbs. of tension on the neck."
-I thought flats were supposed to be looser, hence the "4003 double truss rod making round-wound strings standard" line.
at the moment, the dead spot is not gone, but better enough to live with.
ya know when I first took it to a pro (at Rudy's on 49th St NYC), the neck was perfectly straight, and the first he did was loosen the truss rod! Friends of mine who get pro setups say they do this becasue the area (volume) used by the vibrating string is curved, therefore so should the neck be. Well I sorta balk at this, but it does play well like this. The only problem is the imbalance between the pickups. And I can't make the horseshoe any lower or the neck pickup any higher.
Ely, the standard strings on the old ones were flats made for RIC by Maxima in Germany. They had a very small core wire and so were very low tension. John Hall has said that the formula went to the grave with the prior owner of Maxima.
Most flats today have much larger core wire and are typically a little higher tension than the same size in rounds. There are exceptions, e.g. Thomastik-Infeld flats are low tension.
From my limited experience with them, the Rotos definitely have higher than average tension. I recall a review of flats in Bass Player a few years back, they said the same thing.
Most flats today have much larger core wire and are typically a little higher tension than the same size in rounds. There are exceptions, e.g. Thomastik-Infeld flats are low tension.
From my limited experience with them, the Rotos definitely have higher than average tension. I recall a review of flats in Bass Player a few years back, they said the same thing.
The old time flats had lower tension, but the new ones have a thicker core which translates into higher tension, if you want low tension flatwounds try Thomastic-Infields. They are made like the old ones were, they remind me of the strings that came with my brand new 1977 4001. With a Ric you want minimal bow in the neck, mine are all almost straight unlike what you would do with a Fender, they play and sound best that way. As far as your strings hitting the pickup cover, I think that you have the horseshoe pickup too low. Most of your tone comes from the horseshoe with the deep bass coming from the toaster. You have to remember that the toaster was kind of an add on to a 4000 bass for more tonal range (bottom). The horseshoe was the main pickup. If you continue to have problems take it to someone who knows Rics, there are not a lot of people around who really know these basses, especially V63's but it is well worth finding someone who does. When set up properly these basses are very punchy and easy to play, especially with the flats on them.
