Bent Rods, pannic sets in!!!!!! Help!!!!!

ilan · Post by **ilan** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 6:10 am

Do these bent rods need to be replaced, or can they be straightened?

shakey_slim · Post by **shakey_slim** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 9:50 am

When I replaced the truss rods in my 4003s/5, the old ones were bent exactly like those. Put the new ones in, and now the neck is perfect!

stevefox · Post by **stevefox** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 10:29 pm

What I dont get is on a two year old bass why are the rods like this?? Its a pretty hard steel they use for these things so surely they would have been installed like this.

rickfan60 · Post by **rickfan60** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 5:17 am

The curve in the rod is not a problem. They sometimes take a curve like that as they are removed. In service, the mild steel is under load and will straighten out and follow the curve of the truss channel. The fact that you were able to remove the rod at all proves it. The channel itself is very confined and allows for almost no wiggle room. If you are experiencing a neck problem it is likely due to something else.

johnhall · Post by **johnhall** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 5:44 am

The rods are SUPPOSED to be bent if a given neck needs the extra kick to overcome what the wood has done. Sometimes we bend them almost to a full circle.

This is a further example of why stainless or other hardened steel is NOT satisfactory for use in a truss rod.

markbass99 · Post by **markbass99** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 8:52 am

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that suppose the curve in the rod somehow got turned 180 deg's, couldn't that exacerbate a neck problem. It seems for the curved rod to work it would have to be bottomed out in the nuts at the body end, and those nuts with their star washers would have to "dig in" at the body end to prevent turning of the rod. With no guarantee that a rod would keep the same index, wouldn't it be better to start with reasonably straight rods for best results, provided the neck was in good shape to start with.

stevefox · Post by **stevefox** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 10:18 am

What Mark Gilbert Said.

rickfan60 · Post by **rickfan60** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 11:56 am

I think what John Hall just said is that they will sometimes bend the rods a bit in the factory to compensate for the tendencies of the wood. If you think about it, it makes sense. Wood is a highly variable and somewhat unpredictable material that can change over time. Ideally yes, the rods should always be the same but it is not like they are building guitars out of engineered materials that are the same from batch to batch. Whoever assembled your bass in the factory apparently felt that one rod needed a little extra push and applied a bend to provide it.

ilan · Post by **ilan** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 10:09 pm

"... Whoever assembled your bass in the factory apparently felt that one rod needed a little extra push and applied a bend to provide it"

But given the fact that he can't flatten the neck, isn't that a "little extra push" in the wrong direction?

stevefox · Post by **stevefox** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 11:21 pm

Well seeing as I've got no luck getting hold of a new rod I decided to take matters into my own hands and use my own mechanical initiative. I heated up the bent rod and straightened it out about halfway between straight and how much it was bent. I then swapped the rods around and put the rod that was in the treble side into the bass side and vice versa. I did this all last night and put it all back together and adjusted and tuned everything so it could settle overnight. Before I put the strings on I also lightly stoned the frets just to be sure they where all even.
This morning theb bass seems to have settled to a almost perfect angle. Treble side is just above flat(the way I like it)and the bass side is pretty much flat, just enough curve to stop any fretbuzz.
Surely after spending this kinda money on a bass I should not have needed to have done all this. How come my MIA P-Bass has NEVER needed any mucking about other than the odd Rod adjustment????
Why so many issues with Rics????
For Sale: One Montezuma Brown '04 4003, recently REALLY setup and now playing good(Finally after 2 years of battling)Great condition, a couple of small minor dinks, one small chip to finish but in generally great condition. Sensible offers.......I'm getting a Stingray, atleast that wont need constant work.

bob_atherton · Post by **bob_atherton** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 11:52 pm

Steve, I hate to say it but I think it's a question of luck. I have owned 4 Fenders, 3 J's and 1 P and aside from one of the J's I had setup problems with all of their necks.

I have owned about 12 RICs, I lost count, but aside from my beloved '72 all the necks were a dream to set up. After much hard work the '72 is now a dream to play and will go with me to my grave.

I find the dual truss system works well. FWIW I did have a MM Stingray myself. Great bass, built like a battleship, neck was easy to set up and was always straight. I just hated the tone, I think I'm a passive not active man. It always sounded very processed and not organic enough for me. YMMV.

stevefox · Post by **stevefox** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 12:06 am

Hey Bob.
I think I'm just ****** off at the moment. I do love my Ric. Its beautiful, I love the tone, its comfortable and probably the best bass I could own. I'm just mad about hjow much hassle its given me. I'll see how it holds out now that I've set it up, touch wood its playing great now and the neck is in a good place so hopefully my efforts and bravery have paid off. I think a heavier guage of my current string would probably make the neck feel better too as they are a low tension string. I use them cos they intonate perfectly and dont lift the bridge and even though they are stainless rounds they have no disernable wear on the frets and I play a LOT!
I think the rods will "Fight Back" better with a heavier string I'll just have to get a Hipshot bridge to allow perfect intonation and prevent the bridge lift problem.(I've had the heavier guage on before so know how it effects the bass)
I'm going to be touring soon for a couple of weeks and I need this thing reliable, hence all my stress.
Steve

markbass99 · Post by **markbass99** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 2:13 am

I think the dual truss rod system does intimidate some people, I know I was many years ago before the internet and people started talking about tips and tricks involved. With a little care and precautions I think most people can handle any set up issues on their own, even if the rods need to be pulled for further investigation.
One thing that has really helped me was doing the five string conversions on the 4004 model, you learn every aspect of guitar set up when you attempt this, from nut cutting to bridge location and adjustment, you get to see how they all affect each other.
And this all goes back to that saying about wanting something done right, nobody knows how you want your set up better than you, if you learn how to get there on your own you will be immensely satisfied.

ilan · Post by **ilan** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 2:43 am

"... nobody knows how you want your set up better than you, if you learn how to get there on your own you will be immensely satisfied"

IMHO every guitar and bass player should know how to set up ther instruments to their personal preference, but set-up does not include pulling the truss rods out of the neck and straightening them. I don't know if that procedure was needed, but I do know that a 2-year old high-end bass that was not abused, should have a neck that can be straightened.

I love Rics but in my experience, Fenders give you a lot less hassle (unless you've got a Geddy Lee Jazz Bass... these things have more neck problems than 60's Rics).

rickfan60 · Post by **rickfan60** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 4:15 am

I am glad it worked out for you Steve. As I said in my last post, wood can be unpredictable and variable over time. The setup may have been right in the factory but not so right as time passed. If you are the original owner, the bass is still under warranty.