Played a charity gig last night using my 4001CS. Shortly before we went on I wrote out the setlist with permanent marker. Unbeknownst to me, I accidentally got some on my left hand thumb (it was a rather hectic affair with lots of bands milling around getting ready for their slots).
We went on stage about 10-15 minutes later and half way through the brief set I noticed that there were dark marks appearing on the neck of my CS. When I came offstage I noticed the marker on my thumb, and realised that it had transferred itself onto the finish of my bass. I now have thumbprints up the rear of the neck of my CS, and I can't get them out. Any advice as to what to do would be appreciated.
I don't know if this would've happened with any other finish, but I'm really starting to tire of the continued CS finish problems. The paint seems to discolour and fall off if you so much as look at it. This is the second CS I've had, and the second to suffer these problems, and I know I'm not alone.
BTW, I'll be unavailable from this afternoon until Wednesday or Thursday, but if Paul (or anyone else) could help I'd be really grateful.
"thumbprints" on my 4001CS......
Moderator: jingle_jangle
"thumbprints" on my 4001CS......
"Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle."
-
jingle_jangle
- RRF Moderator
- Posts: 22679
- Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2004 6:00 am
- Contact:
Shaun, this will only work with very shallow magic marker ink on conversion varnish (as in transfer prints like yours). Deeper ink marks (as in a situation in which someone has written on a guitar in magic marker) require more aggressive treatment.
One thing working in your favor in being able to get these out, is that they are only a few hours old. Magic marker migrates into conversion varnish relatively rapidly before it runs out of penetrating power, so if these were months old, that would also add to the difficulty of eradicating them. So I hope you get to this quickly!
Here we go: For slight marks, a good rubdown with white polishing compound on a soft cotton cloth on the affected areas is the first thing I'd try. Because your CS has that cream-colored finish, you SHOULD not use a compound that is any color but white or off-white. DuPont #44, for instance, besides being too rough for a guitar's finish, is reddish in color and will stain lighter finishes.
I'd try T-Cut Original Colour Restorer, available at Halfords. It's a good compromise between too mild and too aggressive. (Scratch-X would probably prove to be too mild in this case as it only levels the top few thousandths of an inch of the paint surface.)
If this quick fix doesn't work, you'll have to go with the sandpaper/T-Cut route. Use #2000 grit Wet-Or-Dry sandpaper, wetted out with a glass cleaner like Turtle Wax Clear Vue (Halfords again!). Since it's the back of the neck you can forego my usual advice about using a sanding block. Cut a strip of the sandpaper about 2" X 6", and fold it into thirds so it measures 2" X 2". Spray some glass cleaner onto it and proceed to sand the affected areas. When the paper seems to get dull, refold it to expose a new surface or flip it over...it should not take more than one piece of paper folded this way to do the whole neck.
Should you be careful not to sand through the varnish? Of course! The second the marks are gone, switch to the T-Cut once again and polish the area to a nice gloss. There is usually about .007"-.015" of varnish in place on this area of a bass, but there's a lot of variation in this film thickness possible due to the fact that these instruments are painted by hand and also that the back of the neck receives more play wear than any other area of a guitar or bass. So go easy.
Following these steps, it's always wise to re-wax the back of the neck, as this process removes wax and opens up the pores of the paint.
One thing working in your favor in being able to get these out, is that they are only a few hours old. Magic marker migrates into conversion varnish relatively rapidly before it runs out of penetrating power, so if these were months old, that would also add to the difficulty of eradicating them. So I hope you get to this quickly!
Here we go: For slight marks, a good rubdown with white polishing compound on a soft cotton cloth on the affected areas is the first thing I'd try. Because your CS has that cream-colored finish, you SHOULD not use a compound that is any color but white or off-white. DuPont #44, for instance, besides being too rough for a guitar's finish, is reddish in color and will stain lighter finishes.
I'd try T-Cut Original Colour Restorer, available at Halfords. It's a good compromise between too mild and too aggressive. (Scratch-X would probably prove to be too mild in this case as it only levels the top few thousandths of an inch of the paint surface.)
If this quick fix doesn't work, you'll have to go with the sandpaper/T-Cut route. Use #2000 grit Wet-Or-Dry sandpaper, wetted out with a glass cleaner like Turtle Wax Clear Vue (Halfords again!). Since it's the back of the neck you can forego my usual advice about using a sanding block. Cut a strip of the sandpaper about 2" X 6", and fold it into thirds so it measures 2" X 2". Spray some glass cleaner onto it and proceed to sand the affected areas. When the paper seems to get dull, refold it to expose a new surface or flip it over...it should not take more than one piece of paper folded this way to do the whole neck.
Should you be careful not to sand through the varnish? Of course! The second the marks are gone, switch to the T-Cut once again and polish the area to a nice gloss. There is usually about .007"-.015" of varnish in place on this area of a bass, but there's a lot of variation in this film thickness possible due to the fact that these instruments are painted by hand and also that the back of the neck receives more play wear than any other area of a guitar or bass. So go easy.
Following these steps, it's always wise to re-wax the back of the neck, as this process removes wax and opens up the pores of the paint.
“I say in speeches that a plausible mission of artists is to make people appreciate being alive at least a little bit. I am then asked if I know of any artists who pulled that off. I reply, 'The Beatles did.”
― Kurt Vonnegut
― Kurt Vonnegut
-
tony_carey
- Advanced Member
- Posts: 2055
- Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2004 6:00 am
- Contact:
Paul, Magic Marker ink will come off hard surfaces with methanol (a.k.a. methyl alcohol, wood alcohol, MeOH); would a quick swipe with a cloth lightly wetted with methanol damage the finish?
The reason I know this 'trick' is that I use Magic Markers to label glassware in the lab.
The reason I know this 'trick' is that I use Magic Markers to label glassware in the lab.
It is better, of course, to know useless things than to know nothing. - Seneca
-
jingle_jangle
- RRF Moderator
- Posts: 22679
- Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2004 6:00 am
- Contact:
Gary, a number of solvents will remove MM from glass. Besides the ones you suggest, toluene, lacquer thinner, acrylic lacquer thinner, acetone, butyl cellusolve, methyl ethyl ketone, methylene chloride, ethylene dichloride, and I'm sure many others.
The rub: Glass is (for purposes of this discussion) non-porous. The Rick finish is porous; the solvents in magic markers allow the dyes to penetrate into conversion varnish and migrate into the finish rapidly. Even new, though fully-cured, CV is susceptible.
I do occasionally use one or another of these solvents to "wipe" surfaces clean of contaminants (as in the case, for instance, of label residue), but would not do it in the case of Magic Marker.
The rub: Glass is (for purposes of this discussion) non-porous. The Rick finish is porous; the solvents in magic markers allow the dyes to penetrate into conversion varnish and migrate into the finish rapidly. Even new, though fully-cured, CV is susceptible.
I do occasionally use one or another of these solvents to "wipe" surfaces clean of contaminants (as in the case, for instance, of label residue), but would not do it in the case of Magic Marker.
“I say in speeches that a plausible mission of artists is to make people appreciate being alive at least a little bit. I am then asked if I know of any artists who pulled that off. I reply, 'The Beatles did.”
― Kurt Vonnegut
― Kurt Vonnegut
I know my advice on this subject will be discounted by some, but I recommend writing the set list out on a bar napkin with a french-fry dipped in ketchup...
(Sorry, Peter, I'm just way too busy to manage my own forum section...but thanks for asking, if you were about to...)
(Sorry, Peter, I'm just way too busy to manage my own forum section...but thanks for asking, if you were about to...)
I didn't get where I am today by being on time...
-
beatlefreak
- Senior Member
- Posts: 6160
- Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 5:45 am
- Contact:
-
jingle_jangle
- RRF Moderator
- Posts: 22679
- Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2004 6:00 am
- Contact:
Denatured alcohol and naphtha are both very mild solvents. If the prints are not very deep, this would work out fine.
However, if there is any penetration of the MM dye, solvents won't work. They will remove any MM remaining on the surface, but will leave a purple "ghost" image. This is the MM dye which has migrated into the CV. Standard Magic Marker "black" ink is actually a very intense, deep purple.
I assumed that penetration is an issue here...but perhaps Shaun is lucky on this count.
(BTW, never use denatured alcohol to clean acrylic like Rick guards or TRCs: it makes them crack and/or shatter!)
However, if there is any penetration of the MM dye, solvents won't work. They will remove any MM remaining on the surface, but will leave a purple "ghost" image. This is the MM dye which has migrated into the CV. Standard Magic Marker "black" ink is actually a very intense, deep purple.
I assumed that penetration is an issue here...but perhaps Shaun is lucky on this count.
(BTW, never use denatured alcohol to clean acrylic like Rick guards or TRCs: it makes them crack and/or shatter!)
“I say in speeches that a plausible mission of artists is to make people appreciate being alive at least a little bit. I am then asked if I know of any artists who pulled that off. I reply, 'The Beatles did.”
― Kurt Vonnegut
― Kurt Vonnegut
Many thanks Paul (and everyone else who's contributed). I've now returned from my little jaunt and will try the various methods you've described asap. It should be interesting as I've never used any of these methods yet.....I'll let you know the results.
Just out of interest, if I ever decided to have this guitar refinished (probably by yourself Paul) would you consider that it would drastically affect the value, seeing as it's currently rather less than mint?
Just out of interest, if I ever decided to have this guitar refinished (probably by yourself Paul) would you consider that it would drastically affect the value, seeing as it's currently rather less than mint?
"Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle."
Paul, sorry to bother you again; I checked out the T-cut original colour restorer but as it was light brown in colour (more or less) thought it best to confirm with you first that it's correct. If so, great, if not, I'll need to go farther afield.
With regards to naptha, haven't tried it yet for one reason; where the heck do I get it? I want to make sure that I'm getting the right stuff. I'm drawing a blank so far, but we're really short of hardware stores in my area, and unfortunately my knowledge of solvents would fit on the back of a postage stamp. Am I right in thinking this stuff is (or is present in) lighter fuel?
With regards to naptha, haven't tried it yet for one reason; where the heck do I get it? I want to make sure that I'm getting the right stuff. I'm drawing a blank so far, but we're really short of hardware stores in my area, and unfortunately my knowledge of solvents would fit on the back of a postage stamp. Am I right in thinking this stuff is (or is present in) lighter fuel?
"Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle."
-
jingle_jangle
- RRF Moderator
- Posts: 22679
- Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2004 6:00 am
- Contact:
Not a problem, Shaun...
The light brown colour restorer will work fine.
Naphtha=lighter fuel.
Now you're set to go!
The light brown colour restorer will work fine.
Naphtha=lighter fuel.
Now you're set to go!
“I say in speeches that a plausible mission of artists is to make people appreciate being alive at least a little bit. I am then asked if I know of any artists who pulled that off. I reply, 'The Beatles did.”
― Kurt Vonnegut
― Kurt Vonnegut
Paul, many thanks for your prompt reply. I may be too far gone for the lighter fuel (wait, I'll rephrase that...), but I'll try it anyway. If not, colour restorer it is. Thanks again and all the best!
BTW, I don't smoke and don't drive and have never owned a car (well, there was a VW Beetle once, but that's a long story...)....you'd never guess, would you?
BTW, I don't smoke and don't drive and have never owned a car (well, there was a VW Beetle once, but that's a long story...)....you'd never guess, would you?
"Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle."
-
jingle_jangle
- RRF Moderator
- Posts: 22679
- Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2004 6:00 am
- Contact:
Re: the resale value issue--I've expounded on this topic many times, to (I'm sure) some boredom from readers.
Short answer: Depends on whether you want to eventually sell it, and who to, and how much of a hurry you will be in.
1. If you do decide to sell a Rick that was refinished by myself or Dale, try to sell it to someone who's heard of us and to whom the term "factory-standard refinish" means something.
2. Avoid dealers, except specialists in used Ricks like Mike Parks and Chris Clayton, who have an appreciation of these instruments.
3. Remember that the sale of a specialized instrument like a used, expertly-refinished Rickenbacker guitar or bass, is a unique negotiation between two sympathetic and cooperative individuals. If it doesn't feel like the above, find another buyer.
Short answer: Depends on whether you want to eventually sell it, and who to, and how much of a hurry you will be in.
1. If you do decide to sell a Rick that was refinished by myself or Dale, try to sell it to someone who's heard of us and to whom the term "factory-standard refinish" means something.
2. Avoid dealers, except specialists in used Ricks like Mike Parks and Chris Clayton, who have an appreciation of these instruments.
3. Remember that the sale of a specialized instrument like a used, expertly-refinished Rickenbacker guitar or bass, is a unique negotiation between two sympathetic and cooperative individuals. If it doesn't feel like the above, find another buyer.
“I say in speeches that a plausible mission of artists is to make people appreciate being alive at least a little bit. I am then asked if I know of any artists who pulled that off. I reply, 'The Beatles did.”
― Kurt Vonnegut
― Kurt Vonnegut