What are flat wound strings

dave4004 · Post by **dave4004** » Thu Jun 05, 2003 1:04 pm

Wyman has stated he always used flatwounds, and "Paint It Black" was done on his homemade fretless. Regardless of how he got the sounds, the tone and his basslines were great.

philco · Post by **philco** » Thu Jun 05, 2003 2:00 pm

Bob, I think Bill had roundwounds on his Steinberger bass in a '91 video I have of the Stones. As for the ORIGINAL release of Paint It Black, I will have to listen to it tonight and get back to you. He DID slide a lot of the notes, and it sure sounded like roundwound finger noise to me. He may have cranked the mid and treble to accentuate the finger noise with flatwounds.

I have no doubt that Pyramid flatwounds are great strings, if that is your tone, but I will not pay the asking price as long as I can get RIC roundwounds for $20 a set. You can boil them when they go dead and use them some more. My personal philosophy is to avoid expensive musical gear. I like the ringing piano tone that RIC roundwounds have, and my 4004L is the bassiest sounding of all Rickenbackers anyway, since the pickups are the farthest from the bridge of any model ever made, like on the early Cheyennes. How many other basses actually have the neck pickup jammed up against the neck? The bridge pickup is about where a P-bass pickup is located, which is fine. The pickups on the new 4004 basses are now placed closer to the bridge to get back some of that vintage tone. I like my early 4004L and the sound that roundwounds give it just fine. I also have a maple fretboard, which is no longer available. Looks absolutely killer with the Jetglo finish for contrast.

Roundwounds are just more versatile. You can always make a lively string sound deader. If you need deader tone, then shove some rubber foam or piece of rubber hose under the strings in front of the saddles. You can move the rubber forward or backwards for different effect. My father still laughs about the time a friend of his went to a country music concert to learn a particular guitarist's tone secret. It was a wadded up empty cigarette carton shoved under the strings. It must have been the original fuzz tone.

You can also try wrapping the first few inches of string in front of the bridge with plastic electrical tape for a deader tone. Heat shrink tubing might work also, installed before you put it on your bass.

gpatt5762 · Post by **gpatt5762** » Thu Jun 05, 2003 3:01 pm

Wyman played that modified Dallas Tuxedo bass on ALL Stones recordings, in the studio, up till Some Girls. Possibly with the original strings. He was not John Entwistle.

Garry

philco · Post by **philco** » Thu Jun 05, 2003 5:25 pm

Bob, Garry, Dave, you are right on the original recording. Those are not roundwounds. Bill is using a Steinberger bass on my early 90's DVD of their Steel Wheels tour. Paint It Black is better on this live version. Keith reveals the Spanish guitar roots of his guitar lines much more clearly, and Bill's bass lines have a brighter tone than the original version. Bill was using a pick on the live version. Sounds a bit like my 4004L with roundwounds. The bass is quite a bit different sounding between the two recordings, but that Steinberger is a radically different bass. Closer listening made it impossible to tell with certainty what kind of strings he was using on the live recording, but I definitely like the live version with that Steinberger bass better. Bill would have sounded even better with a 4004 and roundwounds, I think. I have a Genesis video where a different Steinberger bass is used. Nice bass also. I hear the Steinbergers that Gibson is building now are not really like the old Steinbergers.

rictified · Post by **rictified** » Thu Jun 05, 2003 8:10 pm

Phil,
If you don't have 12x5 check out the bass sound on that, it's so solid you could walk on it, or at least they stuff they recorded at Chess studios. "Confessin' the Blues" has a great bass sound. As does the instrumental on the flip side (woops I'm talking LP's here, haha) So does "It's all over now" I don't know if techically he was a great player but he has a great sound. I heard a bootleg of their early Chess stuff and the bass sound was unbelievable. The mix on their first album "Englands newest hitmakers" was terrible, it had great songs but it sounded like they mixed it with a police bullhorn. No bottom at all.

girlbassplayer · Post by **girlbassplayer** » Thu Jun 05, 2003 10:21 pm

Has anyone every tried the half rounds strings? I prefer the Thomastik jazz flats myself but I did try these a few years back and they weren't bad!

rictified · Post by **rictified** » Fri Jun 06, 2003 8:29 am

Yeah, I've used them on Fretless basses, Rotos, they were pretty good sounding but went dead quickly, they are probably different now though, that was about 15 yeras ago.

iamthebassman · Post by **iamthebassman** » Fri Jun 06, 2003 9:42 pm

Tried a set once, about 20 years ago. They rusted.

big_g · Post by **big_g** » Fri Jul 04, 2003 8:03 am

A flatwound string is composed of a core, either hex shaped or round, then inner wraps of very thin wire and then a flat ribbon wire wrapped around all of that.

Linear stiffness really comes from the inner windings over the core. This is why a lot of flat wounds, "feel", stiffer to your fingers. Not the amount of pull, but the mass of the string.

T.I.'s use a real silk wrap over a smaller amount of inner wrap. This makes them, "feel", lighter to the touch and less stiffness. It is supposed to damp some of the overtones too, this may explain why their strings do sound different from others.
There are few little variables to string production, but not that much. Most is marketing and the small nuances in the overtones, from brand to brand.

jps · Post by **jps** » Fri Jul 04, 2003 10:13 am

I have been using the D'Addario Half Rounds for several years. They sound fairly close to their XL strings but without the finger noise and they do last fairly long.

Nigel,
Do you take your bass in the shower with you? Mine has never rusted!

iamthebassman · Post by **iamthebassman** » Fri Jul 04, 2003 6:01 pm

Jeffrey, I don't go ANYWHERE without a Rickenbacker bass.
OK, so I didn't take the bass into the shower, but I WAS living in Corpus Christi,Texas at the time. It's a really miserable place on the Gulf Coast. Very humid.

maccaguy · Post by **maccaguy** » Sat Jul 05, 2003 3:27 am

I'm a Pyramid flats fan on myst all of my guitars and basses. Sure it costs a fortume to replace them al, but the upside is they last a LONG time! I've got their flats on my Ric (and Hofner) basses, and they give me that great 60's sound.

maccaguy · Post by **maccaguy** » Sat Jul 05, 2003 3:28 am

I'm a Pyramid flats fan on most all of my guitars and basses. Sure it costs a fortume to replace them al, but the upside is they last a LONG time! I've got their flats on my Ric (and Hofner) basses, and they give me that great 60's sound.

maccaguy · Post by **maccaguy** » Sat Jul 05, 2003 3:30 am

Sorry about the double post!

big_g · Post by **big_g** » Sat Jul 05, 2003 7:26 am

On the question of half-rounds or half-wounds, I've heard from an number of luthiers in this area that they aren't fond of them. I've been told that since they basically are round wounds with the outter round wire wrap ground down, that they have intonation problems and they go dead very quickly.

I've been told that the heat in the grinding process isn't good for the tempering of the metal.
Most of the luthiers that don't recommend them say that compression wound is a better way to go for a fatter, less harsh sounding string, rather than the half-rounds.