Yet another Lennon guitar question (sorry!)

studiotwosession · Post by **studiotwosession** » Thu Nov 16, 2006 5:40 am

Good detective work. I guess they were being wooed by the Top Ten at the time.

Which are the Indra pics? I imagine the ones where it is still stock?

leftybass · Post by **leftybass** » Thu Nov 16, 2006 6:24 am

Paul, if I recall correctly the trade show pics with Toots in front of all of the '58 Capris, Combos etc. were taken in July 1958. Lennon's guitar (on display) is of course still outfitted with two knobs at this point.

I don't have the Smith book in front of me but IIRC he writes that the first '58 325 was delivered to the sales office from the factory on 2 February 1958. Out of all the known pictures of the '58 trade shows, this blonde 325 with the solid-top is the only one present for display. It was at some point retrofitted to the 4-knob circuit, but there are many others made after V81 that were only 2-knob guitars; so they were out the door and didn't hang around the factory long enough to get the retrofit. So yes--it may have been the one most certainly picked for NAMM in 1958.

admin · Post by **admin** » Thu Nov 16, 2006 6:48 am

My information from Rick Hardy indicates that John bought the guitar outright and that Hardy was not aware of any agreement in which the instrument was paid over time.

wj350 · Post by **wj350** » Thu Nov 16, 2006 8:27 am

May never be known for sure I guess. In "Anthology", John mentions his Ric, and recalls buying it in Germany on "HP" (hire-purchase); in the same segment George mentions buying one of his guitars on HP, and describes it as some money down and "the rest when they catch you." ;D

But he doens't indicate when.

jingle_jangle · Post by **jingle_jangle** » Thu Nov 16, 2006 8:31 am

Hmmm...trade show in July...'59 NAMM? One would think that, since NAMM was in Chicago back then. that it would have been held in more temperate months. July is the safest month in Chicago, weather-wise. (I recall a blizzard on June 2, 1960, when I was a kid, that blindsided the city.) So, could it be that we're actually talking about '59 NAMM for the display of the Capri?

leftybass · Post by **leftybass** » Thu Nov 16, 2006 8:41 am

Paul: Actually 1958 for the pics discussed above, at least I think that was what you meant to type, not '59.

studiotwosession · Post by **studiotwosession** » Thu Nov 16, 2006 8:43 am

A blizzard in June? I know Chgo weather could get extreme (I did 28 winters there myself, but a blizzard in JUNE?)

As for hire purchase, one of the books I read talked about how Brian E paid off some of these debts when he took over, seems to me Paul and George had balances to a Liverpool store. But nothing about debts in marks that I remember.

admin · Post by **admin** » Thu Nov 16, 2006 8:45 am

Kris: The Beatles moved on to the Kaiserkeller on October 4, 1960 so a September 1960 purchase would fit if we can find these photos from the Indra Club. In Lewisohn's book, the photos from the Indra Club show John with the Hofner Club 40.

jingle_jangle · Post by **jingle_jangle** » Thu Nov 16, 2006 8:57 am

Nope, John S, 1959 is what I meant.

I'm still pulling stuff out of my patootie, BUT if NAMM was held in Chicago in those days, and IF it was held in July because of weather considerations, wouldn't it make sense that, since July was more than halfway through the year, the NAMM would then be named for the year to come, not the one more than half over?

Scastles · Post by **Scastles** » Thu Nov 16, 2006 9:33 am

Here is the pic from Smith's book, with the 325 in the lower left corner. It's from 1958. Is this what is in question?

beatlefreak · Post by **beatlefreak** » Thu Nov 16, 2006 9:45 am

I'll have to look when I get home (I'm at work now), and see if I can find it.

leftybass · Post by **leftybass** » Thu Nov 16, 2006 9:59 am

Paul, I understand your angle about the '59 time frame...But-

These known pics (like the one above) have long been attributed to 1958.....Additionally, there are also no post 1958 Rickenbackers in any of the known pics(with Toots), only early-mid '58 production or earlier; prototypes and one-off creations are part of what is featured too.

Many of the guitars did stay with the Rickenbacker NAMM display for quite a few years after 1958, and John Hall still owns a few of the guitars you see in the '58 pics. The two archtops (390s) are pictured in the 1968 catalog...(!)

jingle_jangle · Post by **jingle_jangle** » Thu Nov 16, 2006 10:04 am

John S., I'm not saying that the pics are from '59, merely that the nomenclature of the calendar year could have put the 1959 NAMM show in August 1958. I am only speculating, however.

(Why hold a trade show for the year 1958 when 1958 was more than half over by July? Example: the 1959 new cars typically made their debut in September '58, not September '59.)

admin · Post by **admin** » Thu Nov 16, 2006 10:24 am

While not ironclad, here's photographic evidence for a date of November 5, 1960.

Scastles · Post by **Scastles** » Thu Nov 16, 2006 10:40 am

So, the 1958 Trade show introduced the 1959 model Ricks, in other words?