Rickenbacker 360 Jet Glo
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2544414322&category=41439
"This guitar was given to me by a guy I work with. It's a fixer-upper. The bridge is missing so I can't get a serial # to figure out what year it is. It appears to be an older model 360..."
Obviously the seller is a novice with little information beyond what the previous owner (erroneously) told him.
I have sent a message through eBay to the seller telling him that it is a copy and that I would be glad to provide him/her with details. I'll let you know if I hear back.
Another fake on the 'bay
Moderators: rickenbrother, ajish4
Another fake on the 'bay
It is better, of course, to know useless things than to know nothing. - Seneca
Chapter 2
I heard back from the seller:
Thanks for the tip.... before I go to the hassle of retracting this item and notifying all the bidders.... how can you tell. I'm a player, but not a Ric collector. I tried to research this but couldn't find anything to convince me one way or the other.
Thanks for your input,
jungleking766
I replied late last night with six non-RIC characteristics that spell "copy". I'll let you know what happens next. (As of the time I write this, the ad still stands as is, unchanged. JH must be on vacation!)
I heard back from the seller:
Thanks for the tip.... before I go to the hassle of retracting this item and notifying all the bidders.... how can you tell. I'm a player, but not a Ric collector. I tried to research this but couldn't find anything to convince me one way or the other.
Thanks for your input,
jungleking766
I replied late last night with six non-RIC characteristics that spell "copy". I'll let you know what happens next. (As of the time I write this, the ad still stands as is, unchanged. JH must be on vacation!)
It is better, of course, to know useless things than to know nothing. - Seneca
Here are the photos before they are removed.
Life, as with music, often requires one to let go of the melody and listen to the rhythm
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Gary: Please post your comments if you get the chance. We could certainly have a field-day with this one.
Life, as with music, often requires one to let go of the melody and listen to the rhythm
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Brad: That's great!
Miguel: my comment about JH being on vacation was with regard to the fact that the ad did not get pulled shortly after I posted my note about it; usually with such an obvious fake, John gets eBay to remove it almost immediately.
Chapter 3 follows...
Miguel: my comment about JH being on vacation was with regard to the fact that the ad did not get pulled shortly after I posted my note about it; usually with such an obvious fake, John gets eBay to remove it almost immediately.
Chapter 3 follows...
It is better, of course, to know useless things than to know nothing. - Seneca
Chapter 3
Here is what I wrote to the seller detailing the problems with regard to authenticity:
Dear jungleking766,
Yep, I understand your point completely. Be reassured that I don't expect everyone to be an expert on everything! I have run across dealer ads that had incorrect information in them, as well as ads in which the seller was told incorrect things by a dealer, so they are not necessarily 'in-the-know', either.
Okay, here we go:
1. The control knobs are not RIC knobs, which have the lettering Treble Volume, Treble Tone, Bass Volume, and Bass Tone. There was one recent RIC that had plain knobs: the 381JK John Kay Limited Edition, and yours isn't one of the 250 of those. The silver inserts don't look like the right size, either.
2. The headstock is the wrong size. On a real Rickenbacker, the RIC nameplate/truss rod cover extends all the way to between the #3 and #4 pegheads. The RIC nameplate on yours doesn't extend that far, and if it did, it would run into the #3 peghead! ('That's gotta hurt!')
3. The white nut is the wrong color for a RIC electric. Although some earlier RICs had a white nut from the factory (for example, the Model 331LS Lightshow), most came (and still come) with black nuts (the 1967 Model 450 Mapleglo I gave to my great-niece has its original, well-worn black nut). Granted, the nut might be a replacement, but that should be apparent (the clear coat will be broken where the nut abuts the edge of the neck), and previous copies I have seen have had white nuts.
4. The dot fret markers are too large and too 'bright'. RIC dot markers are much smaller and don't stand out so strongly.
5. The dot markers on a bound neck are a mismatch. For the model 330, which is what this guitar is a copy of, the neck is unbound and has dot markers (the 'deluxe' version of the 330, the Model 360, has triangle markers with a bound neck). The only RIC that I know of that had dot markers on a bound neck is the Model 331LS Lightshow (and it was a 24-fret neck).
6. The dot marker on the 21st fret is wrong for a RIC. Twenty-one fret RICs had no marker on the 21st fret.
Here is a resource that has pictures of various RIC models:
http://www.rickbeat.com/modelslibrary/models.htm
The knob and headstock features I mentioned above can be seen on his page Model 330 page:
http://www.rickbeat.com/modelslibrary/330/330.htm
The absence of a marker on the 21st fret can be seen on his Model 335 (a Model 330 with a vibrato tailpiece) page:
http://www.rickbeat.com/modelslibrary/335/335.htm
I will give you a heads-up, too, that John Hall, the CEO of Rickenbacker, keeps an eye open on eBay for copies being sold as Rickenbackers and sends eBay a request to have the item removed under the copyright-infringement rule. He's the Rickenbacker Police, of sorts.
I hope this has helped to clarify the matter for you. If I can be of further assistance, please let me know.
Although I could have had the seller check the jack plate for a serial number and take the nameplate off to check for dual truss rods, I figured this was sufficient to show that it was a copy. Because the seller had indicated a lack of in-depth knowledge, I included references to Björn's site to help validate my observations.
Chapter 4 follows...
Here is what I wrote to the seller detailing the problems with regard to authenticity:
Dear jungleking766,
Yep, I understand your point completely. Be reassured that I don't expect everyone to be an expert on everything! I have run across dealer ads that had incorrect information in them, as well as ads in which the seller was told incorrect things by a dealer, so they are not necessarily 'in-the-know', either.
Okay, here we go:
1. The control knobs are not RIC knobs, which have the lettering Treble Volume, Treble Tone, Bass Volume, and Bass Tone. There was one recent RIC that had plain knobs: the 381JK John Kay Limited Edition, and yours isn't one of the 250 of those. The silver inserts don't look like the right size, either.
2. The headstock is the wrong size. On a real Rickenbacker, the RIC nameplate/truss rod cover extends all the way to between the #3 and #4 pegheads. The RIC nameplate on yours doesn't extend that far, and if it did, it would run into the #3 peghead! ('That's gotta hurt!')
3. The white nut is the wrong color for a RIC electric. Although some earlier RICs had a white nut from the factory (for example, the Model 331LS Lightshow), most came (and still come) with black nuts (the 1967 Model 450 Mapleglo I gave to my great-niece has its original, well-worn black nut). Granted, the nut might be a replacement, but that should be apparent (the clear coat will be broken where the nut abuts the edge of the neck), and previous copies I have seen have had white nuts.
4. The dot fret markers are too large and too 'bright'. RIC dot markers are much smaller and don't stand out so strongly.
5. The dot markers on a bound neck are a mismatch. For the model 330, which is what this guitar is a copy of, the neck is unbound and has dot markers (the 'deluxe' version of the 330, the Model 360, has triangle markers with a bound neck). The only RIC that I know of that had dot markers on a bound neck is the Model 331LS Lightshow (and it was a 24-fret neck).
6. The dot marker on the 21st fret is wrong for a RIC. Twenty-one fret RICs had no marker on the 21st fret.
Here is a resource that has pictures of various RIC models:
http://www.rickbeat.com/modelslibrary/models.htm
The knob and headstock features I mentioned above can be seen on his page Model 330 page:
http://www.rickbeat.com/modelslibrary/330/330.htm
The absence of a marker on the 21st fret can be seen on his Model 335 (a Model 330 with a vibrato tailpiece) page:
http://www.rickbeat.com/modelslibrary/335/335.htm
I will give you a heads-up, too, that John Hall, the CEO of Rickenbacker, keeps an eye open on eBay for copies being sold as Rickenbackers and sends eBay a request to have the item removed under the copyright-infringement rule. He's the Rickenbacker Police, of sorts.
I hope this has helped to clarify the matter for you. If I can be of further assistance, please let me know.
Although I could have had the seller check the jack plate for a serial number and take the nameplate off to check for dual truss rods, I figured this was sufficient to show that it was a copy. Because the seller had indicated a lack of in-depth knowledge, I included references to Björn's site to help validate my observations.
Chapter 4 follows...
It is better, of course, to know useless things than to know nothing. - Seneca
Chapter 4
Here is the response from the seller:
Thanks for all of your input. I certainly don't want to screw anyone. I'm a bit disapointed that my poor little guitar is a wolf in sheep's clothing, but now it makes sense why my ex co-worker was so willing to just give it to me. He did tell me that he had changed some parts out on it, but I didn't quite know what that meant. I wonder if the pick-ups might be the real deal? (wishful thinking?) Any way to tell for sure?
I thanked the seller for being willing to make changes to the ad according to the facts, and I think all of us here at the Forum can appreciate such a seller, especially when we seem to run across so many that are not willing to correct/amend/remove their erroneous/misleading/fraudulent ads.
If anyone has information on determining whether the pickups are copies or the real RICcoy, or if there are any corrections/additions to what I have written, please contribute to this thread.
Here is the response from the seller:
Thanks for all of your input. I certainly don't want to screw anyone. I'm a bit disapointed that my poor little guitar is a wolf in sheep's clothing, but now it makes sense why my ex co-worker was so willing to just give it to me. He did tell me that he had changed some parts out on it, but I didn't quite know what that meant. I wonder if the pick-ups might be the real deal? (wishful thinking?) Any way to tell for sure?
I thanked the seller for being willing to make changes to the ad according to the facts, and I think all of us here at the Forum can appreciate such a seller, especially when we seem to run across so many that are not willing to correct/amend/remove their erroneous/misleading/fraudulent ads.
If anyone has information on determining whether the pickups are copies or the real RICcoy, or if there are any corrections/additions to what I have written, please contribute to this thread.
It is better, of course, to know useless things than to know nothing. - Seneca
Yes, very nice work Dr. Who. I would also add that there is no photo of the jackplate or mention of a serial on the jackplate. The bridgeplate is also out of proportion.
Life, as with music, often requires one to let go of the melody and listen to the rhythm
Please join the Official RickResource Forum Facebook Page https://www.facebook.com/groups/379271585440277
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newrider