360-12 neck twisted

beatlefan · Post by **beatlefan** » Sun Jul 20, 2003 9:49 am

Hi all...my problem: I have a '99 360-12 with the neck twisted from having a truss rod broken and setting that way for a long time. I've replaced both truss rods with new RIC rods but still have a twist from about the 5th fret up to the nut. Is this fixable?? If so, does anyone know a good repair shop near me? I live about 75mi. west of Baltimore, MD.
Thanks in advance for any help on this...
Chris

doctorwho · Post by **doctorwho** » Mon Jul 21, 2003 9:33 am

Chris, I'm not a luthier, but this sounds like a fixable situation to me. I recently had the reversed-bow neck on my 1970 331LS (which had sat in the back of a closet for many years unstrung) repaired by a luthier by heat-treating the neck back into a correct position, so I would think that a heat treatment could straighten yours out.

Experts, some input, please!

billikenn · Post by **billikenn** » Tue Jul 22, 2003 2:47 am

Had this done to my dakota. Supposidly maple can be heat formed. My neck had a back bow and a twist. The twist was completely removed and the bow 90% removed, by heating in a jig and allowing to cool in the jig. All in all after setup it cost $90.00.

as to finding a shop I cant help, just stay away from ed roman. I know his shop is on the east coast somewhere

JP

dave4004 · Post by **dave4004** » Tue Jul 22, 2003 4:41 am

Josh, weren't your problems with the Dakota actually caused by Ed Roman? Wasn't yours the one where the back bow and twist happened when Ed's shop shaved down the neck and removed the heel?

billikenn · Post by **billikenn** » Tue Jul 22, 2003 10:10 am

Well,
I could never actually conclude that they caused the problem because I never saw the guitar before it was done.

but even in their best interest, they would have altered a damaged neck, thus destroying the warranty.
If they were the problem in the first case I cannot say - neck seems pretty stable now - I would call their luthier shoddy for not making sure the neck was straight in the first place, and Ed a crook for not offering any real compensation for the problem I had, especially since the salesman said they would cover any neck problems I had to the extent of the Ric warranty, since the Ric warranty would be void...

In the end Ed offered to sell me a Ric at his cost (useless to me since Im generaly without funds) and also offered his advice that the dakota with a bad neck belongs on ebay, Meaning I should pawn the problem to someone else - not my style.

Live and learn, Ill support a little guy now before I save $100 and buy from a mega dealer...

JP

Someday I hope to make my guitar perfect again but that includes a refret and planing the fretboard @ $200. Which isnt an option right now because Im going away for my last 2 years of college. Money will be tight..

beatlefan · Post by **beatlefan** » Sat Jul 26, 2003 3:45 am

Thanks guys...I have heard of the heat treatment for maple.Since I've posted last,I've found a good reputable luthier in Philly(referenced by a good friend that has had work done by him). This guy seems to think it a rather easy fix....said the twist wasn't a problem and the bow should be gone by the time he's done, even said he'd set it up the way a 360-12 SHOULD be set up....nice and low.
We shall see....I'll keep you posted.....
Thanks, Chris

beatlefan · Post by **beatlefan** » Sat Aug 02, 2003 10:47 am

Has anybody ever heard of putting hardened steel square rods where the truss rods would normally be? I was told by a friend that he could take out the truss rods and insert these non-bending steel rods in there and that would make the neck nice and straight , then you could make the action adjustment at the bridge...
When you guys are done laughing , please let me know if you think this would work...I am at the point where I'd try ANYTHING right now...

grsnovi · Post by **grsnovi** » Sat Aug 02, 2003 1:28 pm

Chris,

Steel is the most flexible material on the planet. "Hardened" steel is surface hardened which does nothing to its flexibility. That said, I know that some guitar makers do use square truss rods but as far as I know - only in acoustics.

I would not go with square rods in a dual-rod RIC neck.

beatlefan · Post by **beatlefan** » Tue Aug 05, 2003 9:14 am

Thanks Gary. I am just a little frustrated with this 360-12. I have been told by a reputable luthier that he would have to heat treat first, then go from there. If it responded to heat treatment, then he may have to do a refret and may have to sand/shave down the neck....that MIGHT work....man, I'm at my wits end...

grsnovi · Post by **grsnovi** » Tue Aug 05, 2003 2:26 pm

Did you own the guitar when the truss rod broke? Or did you purchase the guitar afterwards?

I would be inclined to call it quits on the particular instrument and simply replace it. If the instrument had sentimental value, I would consider a full neck replace.

Short of a full replace (and assuming that the currently twisted neck with new truss rods is stable) you could simply re-plane the fretboard and re-fret.

I have no experience with a set twist or with using heat to reverse a set. I would be leery of the stability of the result because of the fact that the cellulose fiber of the wood is not elastic. It twisted once due to mechanical forces, un-doing the twist with heat will certainly yield results, but will they last?

Take a green stick and bend it back and forth. Eventually you fatigue the fibers and the stick will break.

Good luck...

billikenn · Post by **billikenn** » Wed Aug 06, 2003 3:02 am

ANy good luthier is going to tell you "might" on a job like that, because they know all wood has a mind of its own.. Maple is the prime choice for conforming to a mold using heat - so ive read at least... in theory heating it and letting it cool in a jig will make it pretty straight, and then planing and refretting will make it near perfect, assuming the heat got it close enough.

I know a trick that would would work perfectly, but you probably wont find anyone who has heard of it or capable of doing it.

Liquid ammonia, Im not talkin what you clean with. I mean as pure as possible. It will have a standing temp near -100 (cant remember for sure) but if you soak wood in the ammonia it breaks the bonds in the wood and becomes as pliable as rubber, then when it is allowed to dry it reforms bonds at the new alignment.

Ive never done it myself as liquid ammonia is exteemly deadly, but I have seen pictures of hardwood tied in knots. Its kind of a lost trade/art because it is soo dangerous. very cool though.

If you decide to give up on it and want to sell it let me know I may be interested, as a learning exerience for myself.

JP

billikenn · Post by **billikenn** » Wed Aug 06, 2003 3:07 am

being a 12 string you may be less inclined to invest in this instrument. I have read a great deal online about how a 12 has to be setup perfectly to be easily played.

I guess it all comes down to if you are a gambler or not?

JP

doctorwho · Post by **doctorwho** » Thu Aug 07, 2003 1:59 pm

The boiling point of liquid ammonia is -33 °C, or about -27 °F. I used it grad school as a solvent for some reaction (I can't recall off the top of my head exactly which one), and this was done in a fume hood with adequate venting. I am unfamiliar with its effect on wood, but I wouldn't try it without adequate safety equipment. In the days before chlorofluorocarbon refrigerants (Freons), ammonia was used in their place, and many deaths occurred when such systems experienced leaks.

beatlefan · Post by **beatlefan** » Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:10 pm

Ok, guys...I'm gonna maybe pass on the ammonia thing

(for now,anyway). I really want to get this thing right....so I'm gonna take it around to a couple of the local repair shops and get 2nd and 3rd opinions....I WILL sink some $$$ into this before I give up on it, though...
Thanks to everyone for their input...

beatlefan · Post by **beatlefan** » Thu Sep 25, 2003 3:44 pm

Here it is, almost 6 weeks later and I have my 360-12MG back.....and it is PERFECT!! It responded to the initial heat treatment well, so my luthier put it through a second and he was amazed that it came back so well. The action is unbelievable!! And best of all, no twist and very little bow. I am just a bit giddy about this...as you can tell. If anybody wants the name of a good luthier in the Philly area just e-mail me and I'll give you the name and address....