One of, I believe, the best current music writers in the media today. He writes for the Toronto Star. In this particular article, he captures much of what I've rather clumsely attempted to say in past posts.
Opinions? C'mon middle-aged white guys!
Was it Ernie Ball who once said that guys who play electric guitars fancy themselves as rebels, when in fact they are among the most conservative people around.
Calcification?
And now, the link (hopefully it works):
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1166097914266&call_pageid=968867495754&col=969483191630
Old Guys and New Music - closed ears???
Old Guys and New Music - closed ears???
How much!?!
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sloop_john_b
- Rick-a-holic
- Posts: 13843
- Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 6:00 am
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rickenpicker
- New member
- Posts: 8
- Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2006 6:00 am
"Wrong" music? My parents used to tell me that some music was "Wrong." I guess that's a different deal, though.
Anyway, hello. I'm a new member. This is my first post. And I guess this is a good a place to wade in as any. And, I'm an old guy.
I read the Star article. While I understand that its important to be able to discuss these things intelligently, the article was just to serious and academic for my tastes. But again, that's just me.
And I do like some of James Taylor's stuff.
I don't really follow modern music, in the sense of generally knowing the names of bands and the names of their works. But my kids and their friends, and some of the people I work with, listen to a lot of hard core rock (I think that's the right term) and metal of various types by bands from Norway and various other far northern European countries. And so I get to hear it too.
I must admit that I don't like the vocalizations at all. On the other hand, I do like alot of what I hear in the guitars and drums, and in the inventiveness that I am sometimes able to detect. (I assume that there is more there than I realize.)
I think I would enjoy instrumental versions of this stuff. But maybe that's just silly, or misses the point, or something. I don't know.
Also, I do enjoy my Sleater-Kinney and Evanescence CDs.
But with so much music out there, and so little time (as someone has said), and having to be mature and responsible and work and all that, sometimes it is just easier to slip into old familiar patterns.
Would this post be considered too long?
Anyway, hello. I'm a new member. This is my first post. And I guess this is a good a place to wade in as any. And, I'm an old guy.
I read the Star article. While I understand that its important to be able to discuss these things intelligently, the article was just to serious and academic for my tastes. But again, that's just me.
And I do like some of James Taylor's stuff.
I don't really follow modern music, in the sense of generally knowing the names of bands and the names of their works. But my kids and their friends, and some of the people I work with, listen to a lot of hard core rock (I think that's the right term) and metal of various types by bands from Norway and various other far northern European countries. And so I get to hear it too.
I must admit that I don't like the vocalizations at all. On the other hand, I do like alot of what I hear in the guitars and drums, and in the inventiveness that I am sometimes able to detect. (I assume that there is more there than I realize.)
I think I would enjoy instrumental versions of this stuff. But maybe that's just silly, or misses the point, or something. I don't know.
Also, I do enjoy my Sleater-Kinney and Evanescence CDs.
But with so much music out there, and so little time (as someone has said), and having to be mature and responsible and work and all that, sometimes it is just easier to slip into old familiar patterns.
Would this post be considered too long?
"Does your generation view the music of my generation as devoid of "harmony and melody" and 100% angst-driven? Sounds like you're either banking on a misconception or listening to the wrong music."
Yes, some of us fuddy-duddies are hearing the wrong music and some of us have plenty of misconceptions about everything in the universe, but just as we had a lotta poo in the pop culture when we came up, I gotta say it is really hard for somebody like me to wade through the depths of this modern popular culture to find the pearls now. I'm not blessed with the time and energy to go spelunking through the caverns that produce everything from the vacuous to the gangsta pap. We all know good acts exist, but it is just too darned much trouble for me to find out who they are, and a lot of very popular acts have made it so I don't want to listen to radio or streaming audio. I need to have my newer music pre-chewed for me by people whose tastes I trust. A lot of friends and even family try to get me to listen to newer acts, but almost only when someone else who is as crusty as me makes a recommendation, I usually find these suggestions unfulfilling or just plain bad.
I'll stay entirely away from commentary about idioms that don't seem musical to me. One problem that I have with the mainstreaming/marketing of newer acts is how common it is for a singer/songwriter to mumble or mispronounce words to have a cool schtick. An even larger gripe I have is that the emotional outlay of the vocal is completely incongruent with the subject matter (experiencing the miracle of bovine calving during the recording of a vocal should be limited to songs about that subject matter.) There are a number of completely exchangeable bands that make me want to shove javelins, or even AMC Javelins into my ears whenever I hear them, since these "stylings" have been disseminated like a herpes symplex to the airwaves. To avoid flames, etc., I will admit to a lot of acts that have been popular before this generation with whom I have this same exact problem, but as an example, not everyone who heard Springsteen in the seventies ran out and recorded a hit album from the loo.
With some introspection, it pains me to admit that I still prefer the idiotic, incomprehensible lyrics of _some_ dead hipsters to that from many current acts. Maybe I'm just nostalgic.
I think the article is written from the perspective of someone close to my generation who is struggling with the perception of the music marketing machine that marginalizes and trivializes our taste and involvement in music. Unlike me, the author seems to have a great appreciation for newer music, but also seems to want everyone else to be aware of that.
As every day marches on, I experience the cultural estrangement more- just as my parents did before me- and you will doubtless have to struggle with, unless the generation that follows you gives up on the dream of irritating their parents. I have mostly decided to avoid moving with the traffic. I will embrace anything that appeals to my musical/artistic values, but I have decided not to be a seeker of all things to find wonderous new acts- if they want to find me, they'll have to get in with some effort. I'm okay with that. I am also very okay and even comfortable that much of the world does not make the same choices as I do.
Yes, some of us fuddy-duddies are hearing the wrong music and some of us have plenty of misconceptions about everything in the universe, but just as we had a lotta poo in the pop culture when we came up, I gotta say it is really hard for somebody like me to wade through the depths of this modern popular culture to find the pearls now. I'm not blessed with the time and energy to go spelunking through the caverns that produce everything from the vacuous to the gangsta pap. We all know good acts exist, but it is just too darned much trouble for me to find out who they are, and a lot of very popular acts have made it so I don't want to listen to radio or streaming audio. I need to have my newer music pre-chewed for me by people whose tastes I trust. A lot of friends and even family try to get me to listen to newer acts, but almost only when someone else who is as crusty as me makes a recommendation, I usually find these suggestions unfulfilling or just plain bad.
I'll stay entirely away from commentary about idioms that don't seem musical to me. One problem that I have with the mainstreaming/marketing of newer acts is how common it is for a singer/songwriter to mumble or mispronounce words to have a cool schtick. An even larger gripe I have is that the emotional outlay of the vocal is completely incongruent with the subject matter (experiencing the miracle of bovine calving during the recording of a vocal should be limited to songs about that subject matter.) There are a number of completely exchangeable bands that make me want to shove javelins, or even AMC Javelins into my ears whenever I hear them, since these "stylings" have been disseminated like a herpes symplex to the airwaves. To avoid flames, etc., I will admit to a lot of acts that have been popular before this generation with whom I have this same exact problem, but as an example, not everyone who heard Springsteen in the seventies ran out and recorded a hit album from the loo.
With some introspection, it pains me to admit that I still prefer the idiotic, incomprehensible lyrics of _some_ dead hipsters to that from many current acts. Maybe I'm just nostalgic.
I think the article is written from the perspective of someone close to my generation who is struggling with the perception of the music marketing machine that marginalizes and trivializes our taste and involvement in music. Unlike me, the author seems to have a great appreciation for newer music, but also seems to want everyone else to be aware of that.
As every day marches on, I experience the cultural estrangement more- just as my parents did before me- and you will doubtless have to struggle with, unless the generation that follows you gives up on the dream of irritating their parents. I have mostly decided to avoid moving with the traffic. I will embrace anything that appeals to my musical/artistic values, but I have decided not to be a seeker of all things to find wonderous new acts- if they want to find me, they'll have to get in with some effort. I'm okay with that. I am also very okay and even comfortable that much of the world does not make the same choices as I do.
"rubber heads don't dent easily"
Same old story new set of words.."My brothers' still at home with his Beatles and his Stones..I need TV when I got T-Rex" Many of us (regardless) of age fall into a pattern of listening to bands/styles that are familier to us..this goes both directions age wise....ask your kids about say..Ritchie Havens or Albert Collins...etc..It would bode well for all of us no matter what age, to expose our ears to styles of music of past and current generations....the state of current radio programming is of little help for this so one must search the music out. One place to start is pull up all the Billboard top 100 of a given year and have a go..artists outside the mainstream will be missed with this exercise, but you can at least get a feeling for styles you may not know about...
Reverb set to stun !!
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shamustwin
- Senior Member
- Posts: 5287
- Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2003 5:00 am
Of the 5 decades or so of rock music and the thousands of artists who've successfully participated, only a relative handful are still being discussed/played today with any consistancy.
I listen to KROQ (So. Cal) when I want to hear new rock, same as I have since the late '70's. Though I used to listen to nothing but until the mid '90's.
Maybe 30% of what they play I would like to follow up on/know more about/ perhaps purchase. There are many interesting bands, good vocals/harmonies/drum patterns etc. I'd say that percentage is close to what it's been my whole life.
Problem is they're usually in the middle of a set and I'm in the middle of a freeway and I don't know who it was!
I also hear a lot of bland, interchangable, unoriginal, just plain goofy copycats and bandwagoneers.
Same as it ever was...same as it ever was...same as it ever was...
I'm still waiting for a band to GRAB me, the way Nirvana did.
I'm ancient, FWIW.
And Punk Rock is over 30 years old.
I listen to KROQ (So. Cal) when I want to hear new rock, same as I have since the late '70's. Though I used to listen to nothing but until the mid '90's.
Maybe 30% of what they play I would like to follow up on/know more about/ perhaps purchase. There are many interesting bands, good vocals/harmonies/drum patterns etc. I'd say that percentage is close to what it's been my whole life.
Problem is they're usually in the middle of a set and I'm in the middle of a freeway and I don't know who it was!
I also hear a lot of bland, interchangable, unoriginal, just plain goofy copycats and bandwagoneers.
Same as it ever was...same as it ever was...same as it ever was...
I'm still waiting for a band to GRAB me, the way Nirvana did.
I'm ancient, FWIW.
And Punk Rock is over 30 years old.
I like to think that I'm very open minded musically and after reading Jerry's comments I starting thinking to myself, what bands/artists have really made me stand up and take notice. These are what I would define as "great leaps forward". The scary thing is that in the last twenty years, there haven't been many. Living Colour's first album, Nirvana - Nevermind, Green Day - Dookie, Weezer's first album and Beck - Odelay are standout works for me. That being said, I can't really think of much music made in the past 10 years that I've been really passionate about. Is it me or the music? I don't know. There are plenty of contemporary groups that I really enjoy (Billy Talent is a current fave), but nothing that has really "moved" me. Reflections of a curmugeon indeed!
Same holds true with music other than rock. I refuse to listen to smooth jazz..and am big on Miles, Bird, Train, Monk and those of that era..but...started to catch some TV shows recently that feature contemporary jazz artists that hit me in the same area of the body...the music is there we have to find it..which brings me to my bands latest cd..hah!
Reverb set to stun !!
I know what I like when I hear it, but as pointed out, often I have trouble finding out who & what that is.
Marketing is business, music is ART! It doesn't matter how old or young the ARTISTS are.
It is easy to slip into a rut when far too much time is wasted on making a living rather than ACTUALLY living.
Re: Dick Dale- the best comment I've heard about him is "rocks harder than most people half his age". Too true.
Marketing is business, music is ART! It doesn't matter how old or young the ARTISTS are.
It is easy to slip into a rut when far too much time is wasted on making a living rather than ACTUALLY living.
Re: Dick Dale- the best comment I've heard about him is "rocks harder than most people half his age". Too true.
Plus five minus five!
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lyle_from_minneapolis
- Advanced Member
- Posts: 2530
- Joined: Sun Nov 19, 2006 7:13 pm
I'm 45, lifelong liberal, listen to current bands as well as the classics, still write and play, and here's my deposition.
I was born in 1961, fifth in a family of five, closest sibling was nine years older. My earliest memories are of new Beatles albums arriving, witnessing riots and protests on TV and watching the dynamics of the Generation Gap as it was then called. I was immersed in the 60's culture. Throughout the 70's I kept thinking "Gee, this new music really sucks compared to the 60's. It's so commercial and contrived. I hope the 80's become the new 60's." The 80's came along and sucked. (Settle down! There are always exceptions.) And as the 90's and the 00's slide by, I have learned that we are all informed by the decade in which we musically awaken, and we judge new eras by that baseline. I notice that we constantly rediscover the past, and our assessments of different sounds change.
2 main points:
1)The Beatles ruin it for everyone, because they remain matchless in quality of output, impact on the world, innovation, continued playability...on and on, no one can compete. So the old music continues to sound better to those of us who were around then and now.
2)Very few groundbreakers make it to the radio today, because of the reality of Payola and pressure on the industry to recreate what's already proven successful. Ertegun is dead and shareholders ain't taking risks.
Good music is still happening and never quits, but most older people will still stick to what they liked in their teens and twenties. It's always been this way. My parents kept waiting for Big Bands to come back...well, I suppose they did, but I'll still take Louis Prima over Brian Setzer anyday.
I was born in 1961, fifth in a family of five, closest sibling was nine years older. My earliest memories are of new Beatles albums arriving, witnessing riots and protests on TV and watching the dynamics of the Generation Gap as it was then called. I was immersed in the 60's culture. Throughout the 70's I kept thinking "Gee, this new music really sucks compared to the 60's. It's so commercial and contrived. I hope the 80's become the new 60's." The 80's came along and sucked. (Settle down! There are always exceptions.) And as the 90's and the 00's slide by, I have learned that we are all informed by the decade in which we musically awaken, and we judge new eras by that baseline. I notice that we constantly rediscover the past, and our assessments of different sounds change.
2 main points:
1)The Beatles ruin it for everyone, because they remain matchless in quality of output, impact on the world, innovation, continued playability...on and on, no one can compete. So the old music continues to sound better to those of us who were around then and now.
2)Very few groundbreakers make it to the radio today, because of the reality of Payola and pressure on the industry to recreate what's already proven successful. Ertegun is dead and shareholders ain't taking risks.
Good music is still happening and never quits, but most older people will still stick to what they liked in their teens and twenties. It's always been this way. My parents kept waiting for Big Bands to come back...well, I suppose they did, but I'll still take Louis Prima over Brian Setzer anyday.
Here is where I hide my music:
http://www.soundclick.com/MarkKaufman
http://www.soundclick.com/MarkKaufman
Ahhh Louis Prima..Zooma Zooma..his sax guy Sam Butera did some cool stuff..get ahold of his Lp Apache. I'm a firm believer in the quantum leap theory in musical trends as well as personal playing. In the 50's there was Buddy Holly, Elvis, The Everly Brothers..just tons of great rockabilly artists as well as tons of killer doo-wop acts..a few opened the door for the many...this happened with surf music ala Dick Dale, Punk via The Sex Pistols, Funk ala James Brown/George Clinton and grunge via Nirvana. I'm leaving a lot out in regards for space here but the thought is...breakthrough artists are a sum total of the musical inputs they had..we all pull from our musical past..we recorded a song that one reviewer likned it to a particular surf tune from the 60's..when I wrote it I took some ideas from Mayall and the Blues Breakers?...it's all fresh if you don't know the style..remember the first time you heard Reggae?
Reverb set to stun !!