Lennon & Heroin

mikestop · Post by **mikestop** » Thu Dec 21, 2006 7:19 am

I've never read many details about John's Heroin habit. Anyone know when it actually started? How bad did get? Did he shoot it or snort it and when did he actually get off it?

randyz · Post by **randyz** » Thu Dec 21, 2006 7:41 am

At the risk of sounding tabloid, here's what I know. According to most sources, he started using when he got together with Yoko and moved into Ringo's old London flat. It is reported that they both snorted it, in addition to many other substances. Yoko was probably a prior user from her days in the New York art scene. It's pretty obvious from his music that he was using during 'The White Album', the 'Let It Be' sessions, and probably 'Abbey Road'. I suspect that they probably kicked and relapsed several times, but I think he was probably clean by the time he recorded 'Plastic Ono Band'. So I'd say he was probably using from mid '68 through late '69.

teeder · Post by **teeder** » Thu Dec 21, 2006 7:53 am

I'm sure that helped them all get along.

studiotwosession · Post by **studiotwosession** » Thu Dec 21, 2006 4:13 pm

It's interesting that, all these years later, his former band mates and second wife have remained mum on the subject, despite its obvious importance in the band's history, impact on their music, and they otherwise went on and on about nearly everything else in the Anthology, including pot, acid, and coke.

And Lennon breached the subject during his lifetime in song, and nearly in interview (years before public revelations about show biz people and their rehab experiences), and other rock figures from the time have revealed their own battles with it in their memoirs (Levon Helm in his book, Townshend in a video, stating concern about Moon becoming a junkie circa '71, etc.)

Though I have read accounts of their bust during the Ringo's flat era, I can't remember exactly what they were officially busted for (grass only?)

Regarding the same subject in an earlier thread, someone pointed out the inseparableness of J&Y in their early (if not various times in their later days) was not unlike two people on junk.

congerz83 · Post by **congerz83** » Thu Dec 21, 2006 4:34 pm

Paul comments on John's heroin habit in "Many Years From Now."

rickboy88 · Post by **rickboy88** » Thu Dec 21, 2006 5:07 pm

Cynthia Lennon in "A Twist of Lennon" (I still have the original yellowed paperback from the 1980 printing) states that her mother was living in the flat prior to the divorce, which was one of "Ringo's assets." Julian, Cynthia, and her mother moved into the house in Weybridge, and John and Yoko moved into Ringo's flat in the center of London after her mother left it and the divorce started.

I think Randy's got it very close - if I remember Emerick's book "Here, There, and Everywhere" correctly. The heroin period was White Album through "Let it Be" and "Abbey Road". The best thing about Emerick's book is the insight to the various personalities and how no one wanted to be around the Beatles when all four were together, as a weird vibe happened then. According to Emerick, Lennon was even more unpleasant to be around during the White Album, partly due to the drug use. I think that is when Emerick walked out as well. People are knocking his memory for details of recording, but impressions formed when working with various personalities seem to be more lasting.

myfretless · Post by **myfretless** » Thu Dec 21, 2006 5:22 pm

"I'm so lonely... wanna die... feel so suicidal...even hate my rock and roll" Clearly John was a junkie during the White Album.

"Cold Turkey" is another clear song where John was trying to deal with it.

One problem with Henry the Horse, is it generally creates an initial feeling of great outburst of creativity, but after years of use, eventually causes a huge inability to create.

I remember reading about Jimmy Page starting to use heroin circa '74 and how he felt it helped create the masterpieces in Physical Graffiti and Presence, but by 1979's In through the Out Door, he had a hard time coming up with ideas and went through a really long creative dry spell.

I get the impression John Winston battled longer with heroin than we know. I think he had relapses during his "lost weekend" and eventually contributed to his 5 year absence from music.

I think, hope, and believe he was clean by 1980 for his Double Fantasy album. He certainly seemed much more creative.

I also thought the heroin problem was one of the reasons John and Yoko had such a long and hard time conceiving a child.

I'm guessing Yoko also cleaned up, because Sean does not appear to be a heroin baby.

studiotwosession · Post by **studiotwosession** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 4:54 am

Certainly Lennon wasn't the only rocker in those days who was doing it. But I'm not sure anyone else had a partner in crime with it like Lennon did.

rictified · Post by **rictified** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 7:59 am

Brad said:

"I get the impression John Winston battled longer with heroin than we know. I think he had relapses during his "lost weekend" and eventually contributed to his 5 year absence from music."

I agree, most junkies are masters at hiding it especially when they have enough money to look "good". It would be very easy for a junkie to write Cold Turkey and go out and use the next day. Heroin is very very hard to get off of permanently and most junkies, unless religiously going to self help programs like NA will relapse periodically (the programs are not religious, just a convenient term). It is very possible that Lennon died a junkie though of course this is all speculation on my part. And I must say that his music seemed to reflect a healing as time went on so maybe he did kick for good sometime in the 70's which may also be why he became a recluse for such a long time during the latter part of the 70's indicating he was going through a long adjustment period which is normal or maybe it could have even been another long "lost weekend" such as Brad suggests in the above post although I tend to believe he was recovering during his long recluse period.

rickboy88 · Post by **rickboy88** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 8:15 am

There is an excellent documentary on the Clash that I've seen a couple of times on the
Documentary channel. I highly recommend it.

What started that group's demise was their drummer getting hooked on heroin. Joe Strummer noted that if anyone in the band *can't* do heroin, it is the drummer. He was a very talented as well, and could play just about any style. I was impressed by Joe's (now deceased due to a heart defect) interview sections in the documentary. I think he was the glue that held it all together as long as he could - sort of like McCartney near the end for a bit.

BTW, I've gone ahead and ordered "The Lives of John Lennon" which I've heard so much about. I've read in reviews that take on Allen Klein is a bit too "nice" in it - as he comes off badly just about everywhere else.

studiotwosession · Post by **studiotwosession** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 8:33 am

Joe is deceased for the same reason George Harrison is gone; he smoked like a chimney, unfortunately.

I know someone who worked for Mr. Klein, and says he got a bad rap. Or should it be rep?

shamustwin · Post by **shamustwin** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 10:51 am

I think May Pang has alluded to the fact that when John went back to Yoko for a "smoking cure" and stayed, the next time May says she saw John soon after, he was somewhat glazed and incoherent. I assume perhaps he might have started a bad habit at that point. His incredibly productive "Lost Weekend" was mostly alcohol and old friends and the freedom of being out from under someone's thumb.

qmoder · Post by **qmoder** » Sun Dec 24, 2006 5:04 am

I can imagine how hard it must be to quit it. Most Smokers can even seem to quit much less some addictive substance like Heroin.