12-string oscillations revisited

steverok · Post by **steverok** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 7:37 am

Hello, I have been enjoying my 360-12VP alot over the holidays, but I have uncovered something that is bothering me. The B string pair seems to produce a pronounced oscillation, which causes a persistent ringing. I don't believe this is fret buzz, but I am not certain. I hear this both unplugged and plugged. No matter how hard I try to tune them to the same pitch, invariably, at certain frets, they produce this effect, especially if I play too hard or fret imperfectly. I think the effect is rather pronounced through the toaster pick-ups, in that the B seems rather high and the G seems rather low. I don't know if this is a common trait of Rickenbacker 12-strings, as I have only played mine. I am considering swapping out the toasters for the new adjustable high-gains. This would allow me to balance the sound, although I would still get that ringing. Does anyone have a similar experience or suggestion ?

squid · Post by **squid** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 8:02 am

Steve, what bridge are you using? The twelve saddle bridge can sometimes produce this effect on certain guitars.

loverickbass · Post by **loverickbass** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 10:23 am

Every RIC 12 I've ever owned has done that. It's the sound. Listen to some Byrds tunes; the B's are really loud and in your face.

beatlefreak · Post by **beatlefreak** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 10:45 am

Try a different gauge of string for the B strings.

steverok · Post by **steverok** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 2:21 pm

I am using the 6-saddle bridge. I had a 12-saddle bridge on there, but the oscillation effect seemed more pronounced, so I took it off. I have to sort of play around it, and not attack them too hard. If the Bs weren't so loud, I wouldn't have to do that. I am using the Ric strings, so I guess the Bs are 13s.

loverickbass · Post by **loverickbass** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 3:00 pm

I always tune the B's a little flat; that seems to help.

Cole

winston · Post by **winston** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 3:03 pm

Steve,

Try lowering your neck pickup on that side just a fraction and let me know if that changes the resonance at all when the guitar is plugged in. That's what I did to my guitar and it worked out well for me. Mine is much more balanced now.

steverok · Post by **steverok** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 4:06 pm

I did spend alot of time with it tonight. I ended up raising the action on the treble side, and leveling out the pick-ups. Also, I found that the saddle for the G was not firmly set inside the bridge - the scew was not hitting the other side. I ended up taking out the bridge, and turning the saddle a few times, to get it to sit in there and intonate properly. What a pain that was ! Not exactly user-friendly. Anyway, I think it is more balanced now, and a bit better. I don't know why that effect favors the B so much, but it definitely seems like something that you need to be aware of when playing.

winston · Post by **winston** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 5:46 pm

Steve I had all sorts of problems with the bridge and the neck my 360V64. I had to take the bridge completely apart and file the sides of the saddles because they were hanging up on each other. When that occurs, invariably the screw backs out of the other side of the bridge. When a saddle is loose, I have noticed that it may affect the way the strings vibrate. I experienced weird harmonics on my V64.

I was ready to give up on the guitar but Dale gave me some great technical advice off forum that I put to good use and the result is that I am very happy with my guitar now.

I'm glad you got your guitar sorted out as well. They are great instruments when they are set up properly.

steverok · Post by **steverok** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 5:09 am

Brian, I switched to a wound G on my 330, so I had to shorten the length for intonation, which caused the saddle to be really loose inside the bridge. I guess the spring no longer has enough tension to hold the screw in place. Does that make sense ? I was hoping I could buy one of the new move-able bridge plates, to try to shorten the strings that way, but I can't find that part on the Ric website.

winston · Post by **winston** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 1:43 pm

I am not an expert on Rickenbacker instruments but I have found that if the bridge is not dead level that it can be made to rock forward when the strings are tightened and intonation will suffer as a result.

Loose springs often cause vibrations. Sometimes the vibrations make a buzzing sound and sometimes they have a droning effect.

It's been quite a learning process for me. This forum helped keep me sane as I pondered and worked through the issues the previous owner of my guitar had inflicted upon it.

beatlefreak · Post by **beatlefreak** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 7:24 pm

The bridge bases are available at the Rickenbacker Page:

http://www.the-music-connection.com/ricpart.htm