Squire's style and basslines?

just_bassics · Post by **just_bassics** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 2:50 pm

Scott, I couldn't agree more.

bobcat · Post by **bobcat** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 8:12 am

"look at Talk..."

Oh, don't remind me of that album . . . I found it used for $5 and figured, "Hey, why not?" I can't bring myself to listen to it again; it's so bland!

johnallg · Post by **johnallg** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 9:17 am

"Take Chris out of YES,,,,what do you have? "

ABWH? Sorry......

""look at Talk..."

Oh, don't remind me of that album . . . I found it used for $5 and figured, "Hey, why not?" I can't bring myself to listen to it again; it's so bland!"

Sorry, I really enjoyed it. Definite headphone album.

squirebass · Post by **squirebass** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 9:36 am

I liked the "Talk" album, but I don't think Squire plays with his usual "lead bass" technique on it. But, as Stuart Smalley might say, "Thats OK"

jon · Post by **jon** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 11:32 am

I agree. Whilst 'Talk' has one or two relatively strong songs, Squire's playing style (if not volume) is rather subdued. I seem to remember reading that he was at a bit of a low ebb when that album was recorded.

From the pre-album sessions I've heard, that album seemed very much Trevor's with some input from Jon, so it may be that simpler basslines were what was ordered, so to speak. I still enjoy bits, especially Endless Dream, which has some great 'Yes' vocals.

just_bassics · Post by **just_bassics** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 12:06 pm

I liked "Talk" but it was clearly a Rabin-Anderson project. I miss Squire's input, especially in the vocals. After that album, Yes fans must have made it pretty clear to the record company that they wanted the classic lineup back because Steve Howe and Rick Wakeman were located fairly quickly. As much as I did like a lot of the Trevor Rabin period, he lost me on the '94 Talk Tour by playing "And you and I" on electric piano!

Yes before Rabin was always a collaborative effort. Then Trevor comes in with written parts for everyone. Great for L.A. rock, I suppose, but that was not the way the great Yes albums came to be. As Steve Howe once put it, "Before we all got too big for our boots!"

bobcat · Post by **bobcat** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 4:35 pm

Maybe I was a bit too hard on "Talk". The whole "Endless Dream" section at the end is quite good. "The Calling" is okay. I dunno about the rest of it. I definitely agree that it sounds more like Trevor Rabin, featuring Yes, rather than Yes, of which Trevor Rabin is a part. And I really like Trevor Rabin, don't get me wrong. I dunno, I guess maybe having heard "90125" and "Big Generator" beforehand, I was expecting a lot more from "Talk". Then again, it's better than a lot of "Union", which *should* have been awesome. Just like "Tormato". They're all albums that, given what had come previously, should have been amazing, but were, for whatever reason, much less.

johnallg · Post by **johnallg** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 5:36 pm

Bobcat, you are entitled to your opinion. I see Talk as more Yes than 90125 or BG. It is getting back to the longer, more melodic works and not the 3-4 minute top 40 attempts.

squirebass · Post by **squirebass** » Tue Jan 09, 2007 12:41 pm

Yeah, I like "Talk" just fine, but I don't reach for that CD much when I want to listen to some definitive Yes. But then I don't reach for 90210 or Beeg Generator for that either! I really like the live stuff off of Keys to Ascension I and II... Squire's tone is just delicious on those...

iamthebassman · Post by **iamthebassman** » Wed Jan 10, 2007 6:06 am

Am I the only one who prefers the first two Yes albums to all the others? Don't get me wrong, I love CTTE, Fragile, etc. but the first two really have a great stripped-down sound I dig, even with the orchestra. "The Prophet" is amazing. The first notes on the first song on the first album is Squire playing a cool intro. Love it.

walker · Post by **walker** » Wed Jan 10, 2007 6:48 am

Yeah, Ronn. Cool that you mention the pre-Steve Howe era Yes. Although 'The Yes Album' 'Fragile' & 'CTTE' are my fav 3, there was some really great stuff on their first two albums. Very progressive and ambitious for a relatively new band. Regarding the theory that Squire's playing style was influenced by Steve Howe, I actually think that Squire's style had pretty much been established before SH had joined - pretty evident when listening to the first two albums. Granted - the way that you (any musician) conceive of music will always be influenced by those who you write & perform with, so in that light, I'm sure that Steve Howe had a lot of influence in the way that Squire applied his style, especially considering that SH wrote a major portion of the YES themes. But I think it's safe to say that it was never common practice for anyone to dictate basslines to Squire.

It's been interesting reading about CS's choir background and the theories about how his style was developed. I'd like to throw one of my own in the mix: The sound that comes from a Ricki 4001, especially when played through an old tube amp, just makes you want to do crazy sh*t. More specifically, that bass with it's rich harmonic overtones lends itself to be conducive to melodic lines and chords. The chords! Power chords and arpeggiated runs on that 4001 are all over the place in Yes music. I'm no official bass historian, but Squire is the first person I heard using chords to the degree that he did. Listen to the part of 'Heart Of The Sunrise' towards the end with the double-tracked basslines. There's a 2nd bassline where Squire is playing arpeggiated chords - it's more reminiscent of a piano line than a bassline. I don't know if he would have thought of that part if his bass tone wasn't so "chord friendly." There aren't many basses that you can do chords on without it sounding muddy.

just_bassics · Post by **just_bassics** » Wed Jan 10, 2007 7:04 am

Nothing at all wrong with the first two Yes albums. "The Prophet" hammond intro is amazing and the guitar solo from "Astral Traveler" is still one of Yes's best and well placed solos. Sometimes Pete Banks over did things a bit but he nailed that one. And Squire's tone and place in the band were clearly established at this point. Yet so much more to come...

ajish4 · Post by **ajish4** » Wed Jan 10, 2007 7:38 am

I can't believe I didn't see this thread sooner. I've GOT to get out of the BASSment more often!

I know I've covered this before, but I guess I'm in the minority in that while I loved CCTE, my favorite albums are Tales & Relayer. Some of Chris' bass lines on these albums just did AND STILL DO amaze me.

I mean, if your going to make up a bass line, who other could conceive a bass line like the one in Sound Chaser? I don't know, I listen to them today and I STILL pick out stuff I've missed in the past.

Mark is dead on when he references the arpeggiated chords in Heart of the Sunrise. I love that line he refers to, but there just seemed to be SO MUCH MORE going on in Tales & Relayer. Yes, there are a few obnoxious moments IE: "CHA CHA CHA, CHA CHA" etc, but as a whole, a FANTASTIC piece of music.

iamthebassman · Post by **iamthebassman** » Wed Jan 10, 2007 10:29 am

Something I just thought of; I got the Songs from Tsongas(sp?) DVD the other day. "South Side of the Sky" live. DAMN!!!!

Also, digging thru the garage over the weekend I came across an old record store poster from the 70s, for the release of "Fish Out Of Water", it's pretty cool, I forgot I had it.

walker · Post by **walker** » Wed Jan 10, 2007 11:08 am

True that, Tony. 'Relayer' & 'Tales...' were VERY progressive - touching on tribal rhythms & jazz/fusion. Although his tone wasn't as clear & pronounced as it was during the Yes Album-Fragile-CTTE era, Squire's basslines were absolutely amazing - borderline schizophrenic on some songs - and I mean that in a good way. It's still a challenge to try and count some of that stuff out. 9/8? 15/8? Even given my particular era of preference, I still think that 'The Gates Of Delirium' is one of the best pieces of music that Yes ever did.