Bass amplifier question
Moderator: jingle_jangle
I recently read a Klingon tutorial (yes I was bored that day). I think that language may be easier to learn than this techie stuff. Partly because it really does not exist and partly because it sort of sounds like Hebrew.
“We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them.” - Albert Einstein
"You do not really understand something unless you can explain it to your grandmother" - Albert Einstein
"You do not really understand something unless you can explain it to your grandmother" - Albert Einstein
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soundmasterg
- RRF Consultant
- Posts: 1923
- Joined: Tue Oct 01, 2002 1:06 pm
It just takes an interest in the subject and some reading and experimentation guys. I've never had an electronics class in my life, though I hope to some day.
John, if your GZ34 is a vintage one that you may be ok for awhile. It if fails and you need a modern one, you'll have to back that down or all types made today will blow. They can't take any more than 60uf. You may consider using a Copper Cap rectifier from Ted Weber at Webevst. They emulate the voltage drop and the sag effect of a tube rectifier but are solid state. I'm using one in my modded Sunn 200S and it works and sounds great for bass.
The saggy power supplies is a BIG component to the great tube guitar sound that everyone (or mostly everyone) likes....blues players especially. For bass and hi-fi, its a completely different design approach.
I've never had an electronics class in my life, though I hope to some day. John, if your GZ34 is a vintage one that you may be ok for awhile. It if fails and you need a modern one, you'll have to back that down or all types made today will blow. They can't take any more than 60uf. You may consider using a Copper Cap rectifier from Ted Weber at Webevst. They emulate the voltage drop and the sag effect of a tube rectifier but are solid state. I'm using one in my modded Sunn 200S and it works and sounds great for bass.
The saggy power supplies is a BIG component to the great tube guitar sound that everyone (or mostly everyone) likes....blues players especially. For bass and hi-fi, its a completely different design approach.
Hey Greg-
I bought into that Webber stuff some time ago, but London Power and maybe Lord Valve are changing my "tone".
In regards to that post about the 200S, I gotta 2000S that I'm in the process of puting one of them Dynaco cap kits (from Ned @ Triode Elect) in. Have ya heard anything about these kits? They don't use Mallory caps, but Panasonic I think. I am led to believe these will work with the 2000S 2x5AR4's.
I'm a lil skeptical about putting 550VDC+ thru that kit so I'll have to get a blast shield or sumptin...
I bought into that Webber stuff some time ago, but London Power and maybe Lord Valve are changing my "tone".
In regards to that post about the 200S, I gotta 2000S that I'm in the process of puting one of them Dynaco cap kits (from Ned @ Triode Elect) in. Have ya heard anything about these kits? They don't use Mallory caps, but Panasonic I think. I am led to believe these will work with the 2000S 2x5AR4's.
I'm a lil skeptical about putting 550VDC+ thru that kit so I'll have to get a blast shield or sumptin...
Buy it before someone else does
"I think my brain just melted."
That's one of the funniest posts I've ever read, right at the proper place too, haha!
I had a 2000S years go, also had two 2000S cabs at one time. Nice amps but they're not going to sound like your SVT. Do you have the 120 or 150 watt model Jarad?
Ampeg SVT's have run at either 2 or 4 ohms since 1969 when they were first made (one or two cabs). They were the first amp I'd ever seen that ran that low although I think some old Fenders also did.
I've had several Stereo 70's in my time and I wouldn't use one for bass although they sound nice for music.
John, do you have any experience with the giant 1 farad caps made for car stereo systems? They are supposed to keep the power supply consistent for the 10,000 watt systems in old Toyotas and Nissans as it recreates one of those loud intermittent synthesized thumps that is inherent to most rap, ahem... music. They make up for the sag as the amp tries to suck the battery through the wires I guess. This is also the point at which the car is off the ground at it's highest point... well actually it may be a fraction of a second after these loud thunderous booms that the car actually is airborn.
That's one of the funniest posts I've ever read, right at the proper place too, haha!
I had a 2000S years go, also had two 2000S cabs at one time. Nice amps but they're not going to sound like your SVT. Do you have the 120 or 150 watt model Jarad?
Ampeg SVT's have run at either 2 or 4 ohms since 1969 when they were first made (one or two cabs). They were the first amp I'd ever seen that ran that low although I think some old Fenders also did.
I've had several Stereo 70's in my time and I wouldn't use one for bass although they sound nice for music.
John, do you have any experience with the giant 1 farad caps made for car stereo systems? They are supposed to keep the power supply consistent for the 10,000 watt systems in old Toyotas and Nissans as it recreates one of those loud intermittent synthesized thumps that is inherent to most rap, ahem... music. They make up for the sag as the amp tries to suck the battery through the wires I guess. This is also the point at which the car is off the ground at it's highest point... well actually it may be a fraction of a second after these loud thunderous booms that the car actually is airborn.
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soundmasterg
- RRF Consultant
- Posts: 1923
- Joined: Tue Oct 01, 2002 1:06 pm
"I think my brain just melted."
Yeah, that part made me laugh too.
Jared, good to hear you're off the Gerald Weber bandwagen. He does have some good things to say sometimes, but he is very wrong sometimes too and you have to read between the lines to see when he is saying something just to try to sell you something.
Regarding your cap kit, you should be fine. I think they sized the first cap in there at 60uf, and in the 2000S since it shares the load between two GZ34's, it has a little more wiggle room. You could always use some Ted Weber WZ34 Copper Caps in place of the GZ34's if you were worried about it. They work and sound VERY close to a tube rectifier, and you would still get about the same voltage drop as with the tube. I've got one of those cap kits for my Stereo 70, but I haven't put it in yet. As long as you hook everything up correctly, that kit should be able to handle things in that amp just fine.
BTW, Ned is no longer at Triode. He had a falling out with the owner last year and left and started up his own thing. Triode is still good though.
Bob, the big Fenders back in the day would often run 2 ohms. Stuff like the Twin Reverb, the Dual Showman I think, maybe a couple others. I always use my SVT at 4 ohms since I only have 1 cabinet, but it would be cool to try it sometime with a 2 ohm load and 2 cabinets. The 2000S will be a 120 watt model with tube rectifiers, and a 150 watt model with solid state rectifiers, no matter the vintage. Thats only RMS though....if you crank it, they get higher up than that.
>>Bumping along to some 1 farad caps<<
Yeah, that part made me laugh too.
Jared, good to hear you're off the Gerald Weber bandwagen. He does have some good things to say sometimes, but he is very wrong sometimes too and you have to read between the lines to see when he is saying something just to try to sell you something.
Regarding your cap kit, you should be fine. I think they sized the first cap in there at 60uf, and in the 2000S since it shares the load between two GZ34's, it has a little more wiggle room. You could always use some Ted Weber WZ34 Copper Caps in place of the GZ34's if you were worried about it. They work and sound VERY close to a tube rectifier, and you would still get about the same voltage drop as with the tube. I've got one of those cap kits for my Stereo 70, but I haven't put it in yet. As long as you hook everything up correctly, that kit should be able to handle things in that amp just fine.
BTW, Ned is no longer at Triode. He had a falling out with the owner last year and left and started up his own thing. Triode is still good though.
Bob, the big Fenders back in the day would often run 2 ohms. Stuff like the Twin Reverb, the Dual Showman I think, maybe a couple others. I always use my SVT at 4 ohms since I only have 1 cabinet, but it would be cool to try it sometime with a 2 ohm load and 2 cabinets. The 2000S will be a 120 watt model with tube rectifiers, and a 150 watt model with solid state rectifiers, no matter the vintage. Thats only RMS though....if you crank it, they get higher up than that.
>>Bumping along to some 1 farad caps<<
Bob, yeah, 1 farad caps! My son had to get the thump in his little Stratus going so I helped him design a box for the 12" speaker he bought and then he got the big cap. It helped - acts like a local battery. You have to charge them up when you first power them up through a light bulb to limit inrush current so the fuse at the battery doesn't blow!
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soundmasterg
- RRF Consultant
- Posts: 1923
- Joined: Tue Oct 01, 2002 1:06 pm
200 watts may be the power it draws from the wall Jared, but the 2000S was listed in the literature from Sunn at 120 watts or 150 watts, depending on the era and whether it had a tube rectifier pair, or a solid state rectifier setup. You can find out more about the Sunns at this site.
http://sunn.ampage.org/
Today's 6550/KT88 types make just as much power as the best of the old ones...they just don't last as long and often don't sound as good.
http://sunn.ampage.org/
Today's 6550/KT88 types make just as much power as the best of the old ones...they just don't last as long and often don't sound as good.
I had a Dual Showman and I'm pretty sure the cab was an 8 ohm cab. Had two JBL 16 ohm D-130's in parallel. My Sunn 2000S cabs also had 16 ohm JBL's in parallel, D-140's if I remember right. I used them with a 200 watt Marshall Major, really moved the air about 20' out in front, you could actually feel your chest vibrate. An SVT with two cabs is much fuller sounding than with one and can be insanely loud, shakes things like soundmen, also irritates them for some reason. I've had Svetlana 6550's in my heads now for at least 5 years and they all sound good and punchy. I use JJ preamp tubes.
"I think my brain just melted"
Sorry but I cant take the credit for coming up with that one. I read the same comment in another post either here, the RIC forum, talkbass or the dudepit.
I thought it was classic, and always remembered it. I've just been waiting for an excuse to use it. This post seemed appropriate as Im not much of a "tech-head".
Sorry but I cant take the credit for coming up with that one. I read the same comment in another post either here, the RIC forum, talkbass or the dudepit.
I thought it was classic, and always remembered it. I've just been waiting for an excuse to use it. This post seemed appropriate as Im not much of a "tech-head".
"Knowledge is Power"
Bob said:
Bob, IIRC, my 1969 Dual Showman Reverb cab is 4 ohm; this is corroborated by the schematic at The Fender Amp Field Guide for the master-volume DSR:
http://www.ampwares.com/ffg/schem/twin_reverb_sf_100_schem.jpg
which shows two 8-ohm speakers connected to give a 4-ohm load. Of course, yours may have been modded to run at 8 ohms (I think that the output transformer may have had a 8-ohm output tap, making that mod easy.)
... the cab was an 8-ohm cab ...
Bob, IIRC, my 1969 Dual Showman Reverb cab is 4 ohm; this is corroborated by the schematic at The Fender Amp Field Guide for the master-volume DSR:
http://www.ampwares.com/ffg/schem/twin_reverb_sf_100_schem.jpg
which shows two 8-ohm speakers connected to give a 4-ohm load. Of course, yours may have been modded to run at 8 ohms (I think that the output transformer may have had a 8-ohm output tap, making that mod easy.)
It is better, of course, to know useless things than to know nothing. - Seneca