? for 8 string owner/operators

flatwound · Post by **flatwound** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 11:41 am

I have played a lot of 8 string basses over the years..Hamer, Ibanez, Washboard, umm, burn, Veillete, Hagstrom etcetc..and have been considering a Ric..but the way the bridge is built scares me off..do any of you have problems with the intonation, as there's only one saddle per course of strings. I have played several basses like that in the past and could never get them to be in tune.

rickfan60 · Post by **rickfan60** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 12:15 pm

Yes, there are intonation issues. They are mostly on the E and A. It is difficult if not impossible to get 45 and 95 gauge string to intonate properly from the same saddle position. I average the tuning error out by tuning the bass string to pitch then tune the octave string to the bass string while fretting both at the 7th fret. It is not perfect but it works well enough for the tuning error to not be noticeable.

hieronymous · Post by **hieronymous** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 12:22 pm

Personally I haven't found it to be a problem, but I don't think that perfect intonation, or lack thereof, has ever really been an issue for me. Your ears may be more sensitive than mine!

Here's a couple of tracks so you can judge for yourself:
taurus VIII (4008)
8 echo dr. (4003S/8)

There are a couple of spots on the 2nd track where things get really warbly due to an old Space Echo...

incubus2432 · Post by **incubus2432** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 12:42 pm

I was annoyed by it at first but after a while it just became a non-issue. My tone is somewhat dirty so minor intonation issues aren't obvious or a problem.

(BTW....I no longer have my 4003s8)

incubus2432 · Post by **incubus2432** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 12:43 pm

I was annoyed by it at first but after a while it just became a non issue. My tone is somewhat dirty so minor intonation issues aren't obvious or a problem.

(BTW....I no longer have my 4003s8)

flatwound · Post by **flatwound** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 12:45 pm

i like the 8 echo dr. one H..though I can't really hear the octaves so well on the other..my sound for an 8 is a lot..umm ...clangi-er (new word...)..and the octave really stands out, especially an out of tune octave, which is hard enough to play in tune with light strings up the neck, without fighting basic intonation issues.

btw, do you have TWO of these basses? a 4008 AND a 4003S/8? and did you flip the octave/fundamental strings on one, or was it that way to begin with?

hieronymous · Post by **hieronymous** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 2:58 pm

Yeah, I've got two. I've thought of having the strings flipped on the S/8, but haven't gotten around to it - I do prefer the 4008 arrangement.

That's funny that your sound is clangier but your username is Flatwound...

jnbass · Post by **jnbass** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 5:52 pm

flats for an 8?

now that'll be interesting

hieronymous · Post by **hieronymous** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 7:10 pm

Actually, I saw one person post at another forum that they use flats for the bass strings and rounds for the octaves...

aceonbass · Post by **aceonbass** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 7:22 pm

I don't find the shared saddle thing a problem at all on my custom 8-string Rick. I tune all of the strings to pitch open and then set the intonation at the 12th fret with the strings fretted using the fundamental string as the reference, NOT by the harmonics. I feel this is a more accurate way of doing it.

rickfan60 · Post by **rickfan60** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 5:57 pm

Ok, so I spent some quality time with my 8er and figured something out. I get acceptable intonation on all the strings except the E as I play up the neck. As it turns out, at least for me anyway, the order of the strings (fundamental on top) makes it difficult to reach the sympathy string at certain hand/finger angles. I have to press harder. And what happens? I bend (without knowing it) the sympathy string raising the pitch slightly. If I finger each note straight on with my index finger they all sound ok. The problem starts when I fan out my and and start using my little finger. The intonation goes right into the toilet. Because of this I am considering changing the string order so the sympathy strings are on top. I think that will better fit the natural curve of my hand and allow me to more accurately fret notes. Does anyone have any thoughts on the string order?

johnallg · Post by **johnallg** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 6:04 pm

Hey, how many years did McCartney play with bad intonation?!

I would think hitting the fundamental before the synpathy string would emphasize the fundamental more. The sympathy string would be partially "protected" from your finger stroke. And maybe not bend as much, thus staying more in tune.

rickfan60 · Post by **rickfan60** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 6:14 pm

This is different. If a string pair does not agree with each other on the pitch the sound is pretty disturbing. Being a semi-tone off on single notes (ala Hofner) is ok because our ears tend to correct for that but two strings in a cat fight over the pitch just won't cut it.

hieronymous · Post by **hieronymous** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 8:33 pm

I was wondering, though, doesn't the strings being slightly out of tune with each other result in a natural chorus effect, which may be part of a "signature 8-string sound"?

Or maybe I'm just not a stickler for intonation...

aceonbass · Post by **aceonbass** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 8:36 pm

I strung my 8 string with the octave string first and the fundamental second partially because it just seems that if you hit the "fat" string first, there's not much picking energy left for the small string behind it. I would also think that if you had the "skinny" string last, that it would need to at least have the upper surface level with the "fat" string so you wouldn't miss it. This would make it higher off the fret board and therefore, it would stretch more out of pitch by the time it hit the board AND require more tension to fret it. On my bass, with the "skinny" string first, they are both the same distance off the fretboard and require the same amount of pressure to fret them. This also means that the "skinny" string will be stretched less before it hits the board and therefore, be less out of tune. Even though the top of the "skinny" string is lower than the top of the "fat" string, it still gets plenty of picking energy, with the "fat" string also getting plenty of energy just because it sticks up in the way more and your downward stroke is still accelerating. Did that come out right or did it just sound like a quantum physics lecture? Well it makes sense to me anyway.