Open-Backed Keywinds

lyle_from_minneapolis · Mon Jan 15, 2007 10:58 am

My 72 4001 has Schaller tuners on it. They work fine but I have open holes showing from the original Grovers. No like-y.

My question is about the open-backed Grovers available from Rickenbacker. Is there any disadvantage to getting them? Do any of you who use them have problems with them? Do they hold tune well?

Thanks.

johnhall · Post by **johnhall** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 12:02 pm

My question is about the open-backed Grovers available from Rickenbacker.

There are no Grover keys available from us and haven't been for decades. The only available bass keys from us are the sealed M4 Schallers, which may be what you have, or the open-backed Kluson-like keys, also made by Schaller.

The Grover keys used long ago weren't bad as far as action and function, but thousands of these were defectively swaged when Grover shifted production to Taiwan so many of these "disassembled" themselves. They are quite easy to repair permanently, however.

rickfan60 · Post by **rickfan60** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 3:23 pm

I have never had a problem with any factory provided Rickenbacker tuner.

Just a thought, if your bass is a '72 you may want the nickel plated tuners that RIC puts on the 4001C64. The bright chrome of the standard tuners might not compliment your lovely old bass as nicely as would the dull shine of the nickel tuners.

xsubs · Post by **xsubs** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 3:32 pm

I agree with Ted. The nickel tuners would look more appropriate on a bass of that vintage.
I haven't been able to find them though, and Ric doesn't sell the ones for the C64.
Anybody know where to find them?
Cheers

rickfan60 · Post by **rickfan60** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 4:10 pm

Joey Vasco has a set he would like to sell. They are even the reverse gear type from the 60's and early 70's.

xsubs · Post by **xsubs** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 4:33 pm

Thanks, Ted!
Email sent to Joey. These will be great for my V63. Dale is going to do a refin for me any day now!
Cheers
Sean

rickfan60 · Post by **rickfan60** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 5:45 pm

Others can be had here I am sure. Just post for them in the wanted section.

chefothefuture · Post by **chefothefuture** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 5:57 pm

Sets of original Grovers do turn up albeit for a price.
As JH says, they are very fixable when the backs come off.
Plus, they look cool.
Got 'em on all mine of that era and have no trouble with them.

rickfan60 · Post by **rickfan60** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 6:16 pm

No, he is looking for the open gear type not the box Grovers.

rickenbrother · Post by **rickenbrother** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 3:46 pm

Sean, I've replied to your email.

lyle_from_minneapolis · Wed Jan 17, 2007 10:19 am

So there is no disadvantage to an open-backed design?

Would the holes on the "Kluson-like Schallers" on the Ric website line up with the original 4-holes-per-tuner design of my '72?

rickaddict · Post by **rickaddict** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 10:57 am

No. If yours really is a '72 4001, it should have been born with closed-back Grovers. There's a set on ebay right now but the seller is not well liked. The way to tell for sure is to look at your Rick tuner's screw hole pattern. If yours did in fact come with the closed-back Grovers, then the screw holes would form a perfect(and narrow) rectangle. If it came with the open-backed tuners(which it shouldn't have), then two of the screw holes would be wider than the other two.

lyle_from_minneapolis · Wed Jan 17, 2007 11:03 am

Thanks Jeff, that's the real info I needed. I was thinking the open-backed tuners would at least match the holes on mine, but now I know better.

Now I need more money and more patience.

rickaddict · Post by **rickaddict** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 6:26 am

You're welcome Mark. Its amazing how many of the closed-back Grover equipped Ricks had their tuners swapped out. I have a July '73 4001FG that had its wavy Grovers swapped out for the big honkin' Grover Titans.

Because the tuner posts are so much larger, the holes needs to be drilled out on the peghead. Then the TRC needs to be modified or the washers around the tuning posts need to be modified to get them to work together. When the hack finishes this and strings the thing up, he would then discover that the post is so large and stands so high off the peghead that there isn't enough of a break angle to properly keep the string anchored in the nut. Some strings will rattle. What would a hack then do? How about a string tree screwed through the TRC to hold the strings down?! Funny how "fixing" one problem creates more problems sometimes!

lyle_from_minneapolis · Thu Jan 18, 2007 6:37 am

And sometimes they do this:

Just plain wrong. Yet these Schallers do stay in tune, so I'm not in a hurry to pay over $200 for the vintage wavy Grovers on ebay right now...seems like so many people traded out for a reason. (I have since fixed most of the horrific ugliness you see here, excepting the bashed-off wood, but the tuners are back on, and straight now.)