Would YOU refinish this Mar 72 immediately?

alanz · Post by **alanz** » Mon Jan 22, 2007 7:35 pm

The refin Paul did to the red w/ BT basket case thereby transforming it into the BronzeGlo© Abomination didn't devalue it, it was everything else I did to it that brings it down.

wints · Post by **wints** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 7:54 am

In this case, it would certainly be unwise to refinish. From a vintage viewpoint, changing an intact original finish is simply not the done thing.

However, with an instrument that has already lost it's original finish, nobody is going to do a better job done than by Dale or Paul.

Within the forum a Dale or Paul refinish may certainly fetch a figure close to, or even match an original finish. However, we are talking about a small group of subjective people.

But, take the same instrument to Mr Dick, Mr Brody or any other vintage dealer and your value is not going to be the same as if it had original paint on it.

That is the general vintage market. Period.

There's no doubting the quality of the work done by Dale or Paul. It is in effect defacto Factory standard, and it would be great to have their work recognised by the market as such, but, for the time being in the vintage mindset a refinish is a refinish, and that's not the same as an original.

teeder · Post by **teeder** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 8:30 am

My view exactly, Wints.
For example, what Dale did with Ken's 21 fretter was a blessing, but a refin on this '72 is completely unnecessary. IMO.

jingle_jangle · Post by **jingle_jangle** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 8:50 am

As I said, I was not commenting on whether this one should be refinned or not. That's the owner's call. My own vintage Ricks, if nice, do not feel the sting of my lash.

Allow me to add:

My completely redone, non-original '60 Capri received a number of serious offers at RIC 75, where it was on display and where many attendees picked it up and played it. When I acquired it, and before its six-month redo, I specifically wanted a structurally-sound, but aesthetically-compromised, early Capri. Good friend Jwilli found it for me. It had been (poorly) amateurly-redone by someone with more sandpaper than sense, so it was a prime candidate for sprucing up.

All of the offers were substantially above the guitar's market value in "Excellent Original" condition, and still above "Mint" valuation at the time.

I think that a vintage dealer would be hard-pressed to distinguish an original finish from one of our (Dale's or my) refins, except that it looks factory-fresh, of course.

A Rick that presents itself as well as one of our refinishes or restorations is a gem and a traffic-builder for a vintage dealer, and becomes for all practical purposes a one-off deal where the dealer-written "rules" do not apply.

Any dealer who insists on applying this "lost half its value" rule to one of our (mine or Dale's) re-dos, is of one of the following mindsets: he's Rick-ignorant, and not willing to recognize what his own eyes tell him (i.e., that the guitar or bass is as good as, or better than, factory and has good resale potential); or, he sees the intrinsic and financial value of the individual instrument and is motivated by profit potential to discount it to the seller or the person who trades it in, so he can get it and mark it way up to a potential buyer.

The only way one of our restos is going to make it into a dealer's hands anyway, is if it is done for him personally (fat chance, when he can make 10X the money dealing in older LPs, Teles and Strats), or if an owner trades it in on a dealer item or sells it due to urgent financial need.

My own inclination--a very strong one, too, I might add--is to avoid the dealer body who follow this "rule" indiscriminately, and work only through specialist dealers like Mike Parks or Chris Clayton.

Lastly, does anyone know of any price guide (except Forum mainstay John Minutaglio's) which is accurate on Rick prices? The restorations done by Dale and myself are statistically insignificant, and are best dealt with as "onesies" anyway.

I look at it this way...Dale and I are both roughly the same age, and between now and when we retire, we will each be lucky to have completed a couple hundred restorations or refinishes to factory standards. If this doesn't guarantee some sort of exclusivity and collectibility in the future, I'd be surprised.

doctorwho · Post by **doctorwho** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 9:02 am

Well said, Paul.

rickaddict · Post by **rickaddict** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 9:20 am

I second that!

melibreits · Post by **melibreits** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 9:43 am

Hear, hear!

Paul, I believe you're right on!

lyle_from_minneapolis · Tue Jan 23, 2007 9:58 am

And if that '72 were mine, and I decided I'd like it to be brand new again, and I had the means, I WOULD have these guys refinish it without any sense of violating a sacred trust or whatever. I'd sleep easy knowing my '72 was absolutely mint and good for another 35 years.

bassduke49 · Post by **bassduke49** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 11:09 am

And, just in case you are unsure of what can be done, here's my '72 "Mink" (formerly Mapleglo) that Paul W. and Ted Staberow fixed for me:

teeder · Post by **teeder** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 11:12 am

Paul,

Do you have any close-ups of the body? That color is stunning!

rickaddict · Post by **rickaddict** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 11:12 am

Mmmmmmmiinnnnnnnnnkkkkkkkkk!!!!

thx1955 · Post by **thx1955** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 12:26 pm

Lovely colour Paul, Dark Fireglo ...

rickfan60 · Post by **rickfan60** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 12:29 pm

The color is even better in person. Paul W. did a superb job on that finish. I can only take credit for the walnut headstock wings, neck binding and the frets.

elysrand · Post by **elysrand** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 12:42 pm

Gorgeous bass, Paul! It is hard to resist the idea of seeing what Paul could do with this 1972 JG after seeing that beautiful 72 MinkGlo!!

bassduke49 · Post by **bassduke49** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 1:06 pm

Sure. Here's a closeup of the body and a shot of Paul W. with an attractive brace of '72s, mine and John Simmon's leftie refinished by Paul in eggplant Burgundy. Lotsa reflections, sorry.