Figuring out the "Rickenbacker Sound"

johnnytrigger · Post by **johnnytrigger** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 12:52 pm

Greetings Rickenbacker experts. Hoping you can share your advice with me.

I recently acquired a 1979 4001 bass. And I had the entire bass tuned up, restrung, cleaned up and essentially optimized. They made sure the action was high enough so the strings were not buzzing on the frets even when hit hard.

But I am new to the Rickenbacker sound, and I am uncertain if it actually sounds right...

Ultimately I am getting alot of farting sounds.... and a lack of powerful low end. I realize the Rickenbacker is famous for its mid-range tone, but it seems almost exagerated to me. We played a gig a few weeks ago and our soundman was trying very hard to optimize my amp to compensate for the Rickenbacker sound.

I have a Mesa Boogie 400+ head and an SWR Goliath II cab (4 10's and a horn). I set the tone knobs on the bass all the way off/down. I play with a pick and I have one on of the pickup covers over the strings, so I I play on the bridge side of the pickup cover. I originally set my head EQ to be flat, but then really jacked up the bass and turned down the mids and highs. And it still sounded excessively mid-rangey. And it had that farting sound alot. So I then turned off the pickup near the bridge and only used the smaller pickup near the neck and then the sound became more acceptable.

I am uncertain if:

a. I am just a Rickenbacker newbie and my ear is not trained correctly to understand the Rickenbacker sound, or

b. Could this be because I am playing with a pick very near the bridge and thus emphasizing that mid rangy tone, or

c. My amp (all tube with a glassy tone) simply showcases up *everything*, and thus is over emphasizing the mid rangy tone. or

d. Something is not quite right with my bass.

Any thoughts out there Rickenbacker experts?

Thanks.

alanz · Post by **alanz** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 1:15 pm

The in-series 47 uF capacitor along with 250Kohm pot cuts the low freqs. The RIC website has a schematic that shows the cap. Some people here "de-cap" their 4001s to restore some of that low-end.

4003's don't have the cap and so have a different "more powerful low end" sound and different valued pots.

Over to you, Jeff Rath.

rickfan60 · Post by **rickfan60** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 1:18 pm

Hello and welcome to Rick Resource! Ricks are known for their punchy tone but there should still be a fair amount of fundamental (bass) in the sound. For starters, make sure both pickups are working. Try isolating them with the switch and the volume controls so you know everything is working properly. If you can read a schematic, get a copy of the 4001/3 wiring from the Rickenbacker site http://www.rickenbacker.com/pdfs/19507.pdf and check your circuit for correctness. Sometimes people try to "fix" things and the wires don't go where they should. You could also post a pic of your wiring here so we can look it over for you. There are lots of other possibilities but lets get started with those and go from there.

doctorwho · Post by **doctorwho** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 1:33 pm

Welcome, John! I'm just a hack bass player, but I think that your pick-near-the-bridge technique is contributing to the lack of a full bass sound. You can check this by using the pick closer to the midpoint of the pickups; if you get a bassier sound when the strings are played there, then it is a factor.

Another possibility is that the neck pickup may be too low below the strings. The pickup can be raised easily and the sound checked; the only 'tricky' thing about it is to make sure that the strings don't hit the top of the pickup when played (your playing near the bridge probably limits the strings' vertical travel, so you might be able to raise it quite a bit).

There are a number of us in SoCal, so you have some local resources to help you out on this.

thx1955 · Post by **thx1955** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 1:36 pm

Hi John,
Welcome to the Forum, I recommend everything said here by Ted and Alan, you don't need to actually remove the cap, just bypass it with a piece of wire.

Another couple of things you can try are:

Try picking on the other side of the pickup cover, rest the heel of your hand on the cover and try there.

Try the tone controls moved all the way to the on position and then work back gently from there.

Try (you may have done so already) the selector switch in the central position and use both pickups at the same time. This is my preferred way to run all my Rics.

How high is the bridge pickup set, you may be able to lower it to adjust the sound to your liking, the neck pickup isn't adjustable via the screws but it can be repositioned if needs.

What strings did you have put on it.

If you can post some pics.

Hope this helps,

charlyg · Post by **charlyg** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 3:02 pm

For me, it was Chromes that did it! I hate those overtones.

kojakcurtis · Post by **kojakcurtis** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 3:21 pm

Welcome! I also use a Mesa 400, coupled with a Mesa 4x10, and it gives me plenty of low end. If your looking for a solid low end, solo the neck pup. But what sets Ric's apart from everything else to me is using both pups, with the tone knobs cranked for that midrange growl and awesome top end punch. The first recording is the tone I get with my '74 4001 thru my Mesa 400 into a 4x10 & 1x15. http://www.isound.com/chris_pearson
I think I get plenty of low end. I use a pick, but have the bridge pup cover removed and play right over the bridge pup.

expomick · Post by **expomick** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 3:46 pm

Love the Ramones quote! Their second album "Leave Home" is my favourite by them.

Sorry, I know nuttin' about Rickenbacker basses. I leave that to the experts that reside here.

lyle_from_minneapolis · Tue Jan 30, 2007 3:59 pm

Oh, and JohnnyTrigger, I'd lay off those beans.

Welcome to the Zoo!

soundmasterg · Post by **soundmasterg** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 4:14 pm

Depending what sound you are after, you may want to try flatwound strings too. But I would start with bypassing/removing the .0047uf cap in series with the bridge pickup, try playing in the middle position with both pickups on, adjust the tones and volumes all the way on and then back off from there, and try picking in a different spot on the bass. Also realize that since this is a different bass, your usual settings on your amp may not be best suited and you may want to play around with the amp controls to try to get a setting more suited to the bass. I get plently of low end but then I use flat wound strings too.

elysrand · Post by **elysrand** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 4:20 pm

As you can see, John, you are gonna learn a lot from all these guys! They are real experts, and are joined by hundreds of others all over the Forum. All will blow you away with their knowledge and expertise, as well as their willingness to help you learn and maximize the enjoyment of your Rickenbacker

I can testify to that personally, I joined only a couple of months ago myself, and have been soaking it all up and finding out just how little I did know, compared to the accumulated wisdom of the talented experts on this Forum. And they are willing and eager to share what they know, in the most friendly fashion that anyone could expect! I have been truly blessed here, in a very short period of time, and am grateful to each and every other Forumite who has made that possible.

Welcome aboard, and post often, whenever any question about your Rick enters your mind.

And beware, hang around here long and soon you will have two, then four, then more and more Rickenbacker guitars to play and enjoy

charlyg · Post by **charlyg** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 4:31 pm

Ten, twenty, thirty, forty, fifty or more
The Bloody Red Baron was rollin' up the score
Eighty men died tryin' to end that spree
Of the Bloody Red Baron of Germany.

Think of RAS whilst reading.

jim_morris · Post by **jim_morris** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 5:27 pm

I had the same problem when I first got my Rick. Even though it's a 4003 and they have more low end than 4001's, I still wasn't happy with the sound.

Much to the chagrin of Rickenbacker purists, I put a Seymour Duncan humbucker in the neck position. Since then I have been very happy with the sound. It still sounds like a Rick, but it's capable of putting out a lot more low end than the stock 4003. A lot of bassists have done this with their Ricks. It's really the bridge pickup that gives you that crankin Rickenbacker tone anyway, so changing the neck pickup is not a very drastic change to the fundamental nature of the tone. I would never replace the bridge pickup because I think it would change the sound too much.

If your dissatisfaction continues, I would suggest giving the humbucker a try. You can always remove it if you don't like it. Just a note though, the SD humbucker isn't a direct replacement as advertised...it does require some very minimal modification.

charlyg · Post by **charlyg** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 5:30 pm

Chromes I say! Chromes!

johnallg · Post by **johnallg** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 5:53 pm

Chromes are great flats that still retain a bit of the clang, but just a touch. They would lend more low end, as will bypassing the cap, playing between the pups, and all the other suggestions.

If you leave the cap in, try neck pup up full, tone pot half up, bridge pup vol. and tone up. If you bypass it, then bridge pup vol. and tone full, neck pup tone half and vol. backed off just a tad to get it to growl.

Play with the height of the pups as was suggested. Neck up as high as you can without letting the string hit the nailhead as that will cause a very loud click. Move the bridge pup lower until you get the balance of tone you want.

And welcome aboard!