Another AFG question: The top wood?

brammy · Post by **brammy** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 2:23 pm

Speaking of Epiphone, their new Ultra is a GREAT sounding guitar. I dont like the orange color but the chambered body (along with the scaloped back) design makes it light and amazingly ballzy. Epiphone has a winner with this one... I just wish they'd come out with other color options.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled program.

tennis_nick · Post by **tennis_nick** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 4:56 pm

you COULD make a Les Paul out of maple, but it would'nt sound like a Les Paul and would all together be worthless. you seem to have a slight misconception about the difference between a maple top, and a maple veneer. a maple veneer is a very very thin piece of wood bent over the top that offers no sonic properties whatsoever. it's just prettier. a Maple top is a thick piece of maple, carved in this case, that adds sonic properties to the guitar. There is nothing wrong with this construction technique. Rickenbacker on the other have 3 piece bodies I believe, 2 for the top, 1 for the back. Does that make it inferior??? Does it make the Les Paul inferior??? Not at all in either case.

One more time, just because I think I scrambled my words a bit....

MAPLE VENEER =/= MAPLE CAP

elysrand · Post by **elysrand** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 5:00 pm

MAPLE BODY = SOLID SINGLE PIECE OF MAPLE. Or, it is a Lesser Thing

tennis_nick · Post by **tennis_nick** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 2:32 am

If that's your definition of maple body, then Ricks don't have them.

soundmasterg · Post by **soundmasterg** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 11:51 am

A veneer is usually considered to be something that is very thin...such as 1/16th of an inch or thinner. In furniture making, if you use plywood, you can glue a veneer to the end of the piece of plywood to hide the endgrain for example. In guitar making, a veneer is often used for the headstock like the black one on many Gibsons. It can also be used as a top for a body but is only usually done this way on cheap guitars.

Les Pauls are 2 1/4 inches thick, with 1/2 inch of that being a maple cap. Typically, 2 pieces of figured maple are glued on top of a mahogany body (which could be several pieces itself glued together), and then the top is arched with files to the semi-rounded shape to make it more comfortable to play.

Some of the semi-hollow Epiphones and Gibsons are made using thin maple veneers glued together, so basically plywood. You have a seperate top, back, and sides, and they are all glued together to make a semi-hollow guitar. You might have a solid block of wood in the middle and other times it is fully hollow.

Many Rickenbackers are made from a couple pieces of maple glued together in the thickness of the guitar, then the body is flipped upside down and routed out from the back. Then the neck is glued in, and the back is glued on. It is considered semi-hollow, but is different than the typical Gibson/Gretsch semi-hollow construction, and to my ears, sounds more like a solid body guitar than those, but still sounds semi-hollow compared to a fully solid guitar.

Many solid body guitars are made using various types of wood. A Strat with Alder, a Tele with Ash, a RIC 230 with Maple, etc. These are considered solid body guitars as the body is a solid block of wood, but it is usually at least 2 pieces glued together and sometimes more pieces.

There is also neck thru construction, which would be like the RIC 4001/3 bass. You can use a single solid piece of maple for the center block, but it is stronger if you use multiple pieces and orient the grain opposite from piece to piece, so many guitars and basses made this way use at least 3 pieces of wood for the center piece, glued together and then cut to shape. Then the wing pieces can be the same type of wood or something altogether different too.

dustymurphy · Post by **dustymurphy** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 4:26 pm

Wow. I'm sorry, I didn't mean to cause problems and stuff with my lack of technical language.

I wasn't putting down Les Pauls or anything, it was just a case of not using exact language. I have a Les Paul (a GoldTop) and I love it. I didn't mean in any way to imply that they were inferior, nor did I mean to tell a "lie" about their construction. I didn't know however that a veneer was considered to be thinner than the maple top on a Les Paul. Anything like that is something we've always called a veneer. I didn't know that there was a problem calling a maple cap a veneer or vise versa.

Again, I apologize. I didn't mean to irk anybody.

jps · Post by **jps** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 4:32 pm

Pedulla basses are usually solid maple throughout the body, no veneers. Certain models, such as the ET series have a 1/4" top of a different wood.

jingle_jangle · Post by **jingle_jangle** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 5:04 pm

Dusty, no problem--you just led to a discussion of the type we get into around here, just to clarify our terminology. There's a nice variety of knowledge bases and specialties here, so everybody wins in the end.

dustymurphy · Post by **dustymurphy** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 5:27 pm

That's how I felt too. I was really glad to get all the information, because it was something I didn't know. It just seemed that I might have upset some people, and I didn't want any hard feelings about it. I love all the people here. I'd like to thank everybody too. I learned more from this than I could've anywhere else.

elysrand · Post by **elysrand** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 5:41 pm

Hey Dusty, please accept my apology too! It was really late and I was kinda cranky, and I should not have posted like that. You are correct, a Rick 4001 (which are the only kinds of Ricks I have

) is indeed a three-piece, you are correct. Regardless of strength and stability issues over a solid single piece, I should have edited myself to mean that it is one single thickness of wood from front to back. And there is nothing wonderful or superior about that. The best and longest sustain of any of my basses is actually not a 4001, but is an Alembic Series II, and it is made of five to nine glued-up layers and then more sliced tops and bottoms of ebony, much like a Les Paul, and by golly it works very well for solid sustain and a jaw-dropping fine-carpentry deep-gloss look. And it is very much not solid from front to back either!

Again, please forgive me

tennis_nick · Post by **tennis_nick** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 5:47 am

I APOLOGIZE FOR NOTHING!!!!

.... .... Ok... maybe I got carried away... All is forgiven though nothing has been wrong!

If you REALLY want to see a great reaction, go over to the Les Paul Forum and tell them their LP's have maple veneers! haha!

soundmasterg · Post by **soundmasterg** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 10:27 am

Yah that would really set those guys off there!

dustymurphy · Post by **dustymurphy** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 7:19 pm

I love Ric 4001s. I used to have a JetGlo, but I lent it to a friend, and he ended up trading it to somebody for a 67 Fender Telecaster bass. :/ Oh well. I ended up using the money from that to get my 330, so all's well that ends well. I don't remember saying anything about three piece bodies on Rics, but it was really late and I was super tired, and when I'm tired I get all spacey. Anyway, thanks everybody, I was grateful for the lessons. Having had little experience with woodworking terms (aside from freshman and sophmore woodshop classes nearly ten years ago) I didn't know much. I'm always glad and appreciative to learn new things.