As of last night's show, I need to replace speakers. Both of my basses are Ricks so I want a setup that will bring out as much of their potential as possible. But, I have choices... I have a double 15 cab with dead speakers from almost 20 years of hard use. And I have a relatively new Ampeg 4x10 that I killed last night..now very distorted,crackly. My amp is a crown ce1000 (Stereo: 560 w/side @ 2 ohms
Stereo: 450 w/side @ 4 ohms
Stereo: 275W/side @ 8 ohms
Bridge mono: 1100w @ 4 ohms
Bridge mono: 900w @ 8 ohms
Before buying my amp I was told by Crown that I needed to make sure that the speaker wattage is about two-thirds that of the intended amp's output..I found this odd but was told the same thing by an amp repairman here. So, ok.. my 4x10 says 200watts power handling at 8 ohms.. that should be fine, except now I am wondering if "Power Handling" is a different thing after driving it pretty hard last night. My question, if you were me.. what speakers would you use to replace/heavy-up the cabs that I have? JBL,EV,etc etc.. and what specs for the speakers to make sure that I can go loud and still have room before toasting them?
NEED speaker help
Moderators: rickenbrother, ajish4
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jocke
Cabs are more or less designed with a specific driver in mind. And with its Thiele/Small parameters you set the volume and tuning frequency (porting) of the cab. Putting other drivers in an old cab can result in a disaster, bad sound, flying cones etc.
Just keep that in mind.
BTW you could try to find a better driver that wants the volume and tuningfrequency of your cab.
At least the volume is important. You can always "retune" the cab.
Just keep that in mind.
BTW you could try to find a better driver that wants the volume and tuningfrequency of your cab.
At least the volume is important. You can always "retune" the cab.
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jwr2
I use Ampeg bass amps and build my own cabs ... I use eminence, carvin, madison, and other speakers ... 10" 15" 18" ... I use a 350 watt head and never turn it up halfway ... I mike it and send it though a 6000 watt pa for the main sound ...
my bass amp is for stage volume only ... the 6000 watt pa is what the audience hears ...
With this approach you can play small clubs and concerts and never blow out a speaker or your ears ...
you can take it a step further use a sans amp of Line6 pod and send it directly to the PA and use in ear monitors for stage volume ... no bass amp at all ....
I prefer a small bass amp miked I go 4x10 or 2x15 or 2x10 with 1x18 ...
so my advice is turn down your volume and let the pa do the work ... your band will sound better ...
my bass amp is for stage volume only ... the 6000 watt pa is what the audience hears ...
With this approach you can play small clubs and concerts and never blow out a speaker or your ears ...
you can take it a step further use a sans amp of Line6 pod and send it directly to the PA and use in ear monitors for stage volume ... no bass amp at all ....
I prefer a small bass amp miked I go 4x10 or 2x15 or 2x10 with 1x18 ...
so my advice is turn down your volume and let the pa do the work ... your band will sound better ...
Yes I agree too, I usually just try to get a loud enough for monitoring stage volume. But this was a PA disaster for us. Monitors went out half way through, no bass made it to the board etc etc.. ironically the owners of the PA (the headline band) had no problems with the system. We ended up calling it quits early as it was bad sound. Luckily, just opening spot.
I play into a SansAmp into a Crown poweramp and send the sound direct to the PA from the sansamp out.. but in this case, it was not in the mix. So I compensated with amp volume.
I am a bit frustrated with the lack of information on the Ampeg.. it says 200 watts power handling. To me that is pretty vague.. at the time of purchase I thought, ok that will work with an amp that puts out as much as the Crown (275W@8ohms) and leave enough headroom to not tax the amp too heavily... but really power handling is a pretty vague description.
The people at Crown said yesterday that if I run 450W@4ohms (which I plan to do) I should go into a 350watt cab with a peak level no lower than 900W. I'll go with their advice.. but boy I hate getting conflicting info from music stores.. like no!! if your amp is putting out Xwatts, your cab needs to be rated at Xwatts, another store told me no!! your cab should be rated higher than the amp... and.. on the back of my old Yamaha cab, it says it is rated at 240 watts and must be used with an amp having an output UP TO equal continuous RMS power rating.. I wish there were a standard description.
I guess I can take comfort in the fact that people who should know better are just as confused or ignorant on the subject as I am.
I play into a SansAmp into a Crown poweramp and send the sound direct to the PA from the sansamp out.. but in this case, it was not in the mix. So I compensated with amp volume.
I am a bit frustrated with the lack of information on the Ampeg.. it says 200 watts power handling. To me that is pretty vague.. at the time of purchase I thought, ok that will work with an amp that puts out as much as the Crown (275W@8ohms) and leave enough headroom to not tax the amp too heavily... but really power handling is a pretty vague description.
The people at Crown said yesterday that if I run 450W@4ohms (which I plan to do) I should go into a 350watt cab with a peak level no lower than 900W. I'll go with their advice.. but boy I hate getting conflicting info from music stores.. like no!! if your amp is putting out Xwatts, your cab needs to be rated at Xwatts, another store told me no!! your cab should be rated higher than the amp... and.. on the back of my old Yamaha cab, it says it is rated at 240 watts and must be used with an amp having an output UP TO equal continuous RMS power rating.. I wish there were a standard description.
I guess I can take comfort in the fact that people who should know better are just as confused or ignorant on the subject as I am.
I was always told, and have always read that your speakers are supposed to be at LEAST 1.5 times your amp's rated output (which should be rated in RMS, along with your speakers) ex. a 100 watt amp should have at least a 150 watt driver in it, or a combination that equals 150 watts, whoever told you that your speakers should be two thirds of your amplifier's output should go back to school, unless the ratings are different for SS amps, which I doubt.
I don't know what kind of music you play, but I've used an old 300 watt RMS. Ampeg tube SVT with two SVT 8 X 10 cabs for close to thirty years everywhere, big and small stages, loud and soft bands, and I've never needed anything else. In fact I usually use one cab, or even two small B-15 cabs. The cabs are only rated at 240 watts RMS, so I am very careful when I use one, if I am pushing it, I will turn it down.
If your looking for volume and clarity try these, you won't blow speakers either, it is the old fashioned approach, good sounding, comparitivly low wattage tube amps with big speakers, it'll get you where you want to go and then some. The new Classic 8X10's are rated at something like 800 watts RMS, you would have a hard time blowing one of those.
But like the others said, take some pity on your other band members and remember to listen to everyone while you are playing, the softer you play the easier it is to listen to the others.
If you are gong to stay with the Crown, it will depend on how you play it, the impedance, and whether mono or stereo, as to what wattage rating you will need for speakers, and both EV's and JBL's are excellent speakers.
If you can tell me exactly how you set it up, I can help you with the wattage ratings needed.
The main thing is you want a lot of headroom with your speakers just in case, a safety margin.
You can play all night say with maybe 50 watts coming out of your amp, then you wack the E string hard and you will momentarily put out your amps max, or more if it distorts, and distortion creates heat, and heat kills speakers along with excessive excursion. But I doubt your Crown is distorting, it is probably excessive cone excursion from too many watts.
I don't know what kind of music you play, but I've used an old 300 watt RMS. Ampeg tube SVT with two SVT 8 X 10 cabs for close to thirty years everywhere, big and small stages, loud and soft bands, and I've never needed anything else. In fact I usually use one cab, or even two small B-15 cabs. The cabs are only rated at 240 watts RMS, so I am very careful when I use one, if I am pushing it, I will turn it down.
If your looking for volume and clarity try these, you won't blow speakers either, it is the old fashioned approach, good sounding, comparitivly low wattage tube amps with big speakers, it'll get you where you want to go and then some. The new Classic 8X10's are rated at something like 800 watts RMS, you would have a hard time blowing one of those.
But like the others said, take some pity on your other band members and remember to listen to everyone while you are playing, the softer you play the easier it is to listen to the others.
If you are gong to stay with the Crown, it will depend on how you play it, the impedance, and whether mono or stereo, as to what wattage rating you will need for speakers, and both EV's and JBL's are excellent speakers.
If you can tell me exactly how you set it up, I can help you with the wattage ratings needed.
The main thing is you want a lot of headroom with your speakers just in case, a safety margin.
You can play all night say with maybe 50 watts coming out of your amp, then you wack the E string hard and you will momentarily put out your amps max, or more if it distorts, and distortion creates heat, and heat kills speakers along with excessive excursion. But I doubt your Crown is distorting, it is probably excessive cone excursion from too many watts.
Jay,
The standard is 1.5 as I quoted above, I never blow speakers and I have played loud at times.
And make sure you get speakers rated in RMS. that is the industry standard, Ampegs are usually rated that way. Peak power is also a very arbitrary rating, is almost useless.
For 450 watts, I would use at least a 675 watt RMS cab. Get a new SVT 8 X 10, you can't go wrong.
The standard is 1.5 as I quoted above, I never blow speakers and I have played loud at times.
And make sure you get speakers rated in RMS. that is the industry standard, Ampegs are usually rated that way. Peak power is also a very arbitrary rating, is almost useless.
For 450 watts, I would use at least a 675 watt RMS cab. Get a new SVT 8 X 10, you can't go wrong.
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jocke
IMO its the other way around 
It´s far easier to blow speakers with a too small poweramp. Then the amp will clip and send out devestating signals to the speakers. This is of course if it´s a solid state poweramp. If its got powertubes you´ll just get nice distortion.
Over at talkbass.com people always recommend haveing at least twise the power in my amp than my speakers can handle (RMS) as long as I dont max my amp.
Always listen for complaining speakers.
It´s far easier to blow speakers with a too small poweramp. Then the amp will clip and send out devestating signals to the speakers. This is of course if it´s a solid state poweramp. If its got powertubes you´ll just get nice distortion. Over at talkbass.com people always recommend haveing at least twise the power in my amp than my speakers can handle (RMS) as long as I dont max my amp.
Always listen for complaining speakers.
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jwr2
Well I just got the phone with a tech at JBL.. he says (as a bassist playing Crown amp himself) that I should bridge the amp to 900W at 8ohms or 1100 at 4ohms and run into a cab that is half the wattage rating in RMS... in order to give headroom.. amp is to engine as speaker is to vehicle weight. I can understand that.
Another thing he said that makes sense is that it is not really the power of an amp that will kill the speakers but distortion in the amp.. that professional speakers can handle clean power but not (square wave) distortion..
so in my case (unnoticed by me) my clip light was probably at least screaming for help.. and toasted my cab.
One thing I have yet to do (to eliminate possible future signal problems) is to follow the advice from Tech21 (SansAmp manufacturer).. run my eq (Boss GEB7) through the effect send and return instead of after RBI..then opt for XLR to Crown with XLR selector set at 0dB.. then play the Rick with vol knobs in their highest position/ratio possible.
Another thing he said that makes sense is that it is not really the power of an amp that will kill the speakers but distortion in the amp.. that professional speakers can handle clean power but not (square wave) distortion..
so in my case (unnoticed by me) my clip light was probably at least screaming for help.. and toasted my cab.
One thing I have yet to do (to eliminate possible future signal problems) is to follow the advice from Tech21 (SansAmp manufacturer).. run my eq (Boss GEB7) through the effect send and return instead of after RBI..then opt for XLR to Crown with XLR selector set at 0dB.. then play the Rick with vol knobs in their highest position/ratio possible.
Live and learn,
But I'll still get cabs with more rated capacity than my head puts outs out though, even if I ever go SS, because it certainly won't hurt. I knew that with clean power you could go way above a speakers rated power handling capacity, but I never knew that they would recommend that as a way of running cabs, especially with a guitar or bass, because it is SO easy to clip an amp in the heat of the moment, even an 1100 watt amp. If you want to play extremely loud, get some big speakers, you are better off, you need much less power for the same amount of volume, thus much less chance of clipping your amp's output. Just my humble opinion. Get two of the new 8 X 10 SVT's, you'll never blow them, you'll keep them for thirty years like me.
But I'll still get cabs with more rated capacity than my head puts outs out though, even if I ever go SS, because it certainly won't hurt. I knew that with clean power you could go way above a speakers rated power handling capacity, but I never knew that they would recommend that as a way of running cabs, especially with a guitar or bass, because it is SO easy to clip an amp in the heat of the moment, even an 1100 watt amp. If you want to play extremely loud, get some big speakers, you are better off, you need much less power for the same amount of volume, thus much less chance of clipping your amp's output. Just my humble opinion. Get two of the new 8 X 10 SVT's, you'll never blow them, you'll keep them for thirty years like me.