Roy: I would be very interested in your thoughts about the criteria used to pick a chart topper in the UK and how it may differ from the system used in the US.
Did this change over the years in the UK or has it been an objective measure from the beginning? It is clear that much is riding on these charts and yet I suspect the typical listener does not question how you make the charts and how you miss the same.
I have always used Billboard publications as a standard, but like any central reporting agency that gathers information I wonder about its accuracy. So what is the criteria - sales, air play, media influence?
Chart Toppers - Objective or Rigged Criteria
Chart Toppers - Objective or Rigged Criteria
Life, as with music, often requires one to let go of the melody and listen to the rhythm
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Good topic Peter and as I understand it, first charts in UK were based on sales of sheet music till late fifties/early sixties.
There were numerous publications publishing charts NME, Disc, Melody Maker.
From early 60's they were based on sales taken from a representative sampling from selected shops in UK.
It was never clear to me, someone may know better, if these were based on sales made by shops to the public or sales by record companies to record shops.
One would have to assume that record shops stock holding was based on demand or projected demand.
Originally there was only a Top Twenty in early 60's this became a top 30, then 50 and then top 75 some years later, devaluing, in my view, a hit.
The BBC used the NME charts till 1960 then used the charts published in a magazine called record retailer, which essentially was a trade paper.
The previously mentioned mags still produced their own charts which did differ.
In an article on Clough Links, I mention this to illustrate why The Beatles, Please Please Please Me, was considered by many to be their first number 1, because in every mag aimed at the public it made number 1 in their published charts, but not in Record Retailer, where it only made number 2.
BBC had a long running radio programme called Pick Of The Pops, which concentrated on top 20, playing the top 20 in full each week unless the record was falling down the charts. It did then start to include what it called "bubbling under" records, in reality those between 21 and 30 in charts.
Over the years market research organisations began to produce the charts, quite how I am not sure, but believe it was still based on representative samples of shops from across country, first 500 then 1000 shops.
In 80's I think actual airplay began to be a factor and nowadays even downloads (official ones)are taken into consideration.
My own view is that from beginning of 80's the charts became devalued.
There were numerous publications publishing charts NME, Disc, Melody Maker.
From early 60's they were based on sales taken from a representative sampling from selected shops in UK.
It was never clear to me, someone may know better, if these were based on sales made by shops to the public or sales by record companies to record shops.
One would have to assume that record shops stock holding was based on demand or projected demand.
Originally there was only a Top Twenty in early 60's this became a top 30, then 50 and then top 75 some years later, devaluing, in my view, a hit.
The BBC used the NME charts till 1960 then used the charts published in a magazine called record retailer, which essentially was a trade paper.
The previously mentioned mags still produced their own charts which did differ.
In an article on Clough Links, I mention this to illustrate why The Beatles, Please Please Please Me, was considered by many to be their first number 1, because in every mag aimed at the public it made number 1 in their published charts, but not in Record Retailer, where it only made number 2.
BBC had a long running radio programme called Pick Of The Pops, which concentrated on top 20, playing the top 20 in full each week unless the record was falling down the charts. It did then start to include what it called "bubbling under" records, in reality those between 21 and 30 in charts.
Over the years market research organisations began to produce the charts, quite how I am not sure, but believe it was still based on representative samples of shops from across country, first 500 then 1000 shops.
In 80's I think actual airplay began to be a factor and nowadays even downloads (official ones)are taken into consideration.
My own view is that from beginning of 80's the charts became devalued.
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Roy: I have done some research and find in my reading that the number of records sold to consumers was tabulated by selected record shops and sent to a clearing house for summation. It is difficult to know when this started, however.
In the US, during the same time, the polls seem to have been based moreso on the number of times that songs were broadcast.
In the US, during the same time, the polls seem to have been based moreso on the number of times that songs were broadcast.
Life, as with music, often requires one to let go of the melody and listen to the rhythm
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Peter, during the 50's and most of the '60s the majority of chart positions were determined by sales in the U.S. Most notably on the Billboard charts. The now defunct, Cashbox magazine, relied somewhat more on radio airplay, but had less impact on retailers and rackers when it came to wholesale purchasing. Radio, seeking a publication more attuned to their industry, quickly embraced the Gavin Report. Gavin polled a larger number of radio stations playlists giving stations a better barometer to regional successes of certain artists or songs. Gavin also did not limit its playlist survey to major markets only. They included medium and small markets. By the late '60's and onward, there became a distinct disparity between radio airplay and actual sales. The term 'turntable hit' became a staple of the industry. Songs getting 'high rotation' airplay didn't always equate to sales. Also, as time went by, many stations were reporting inflated numbers and 'paper' adds. Paper adds were songs that went no further than the radio stations' charts. They seldom, if ever, got any airplay. These adds usually were of a benefit in one way or the other to the Program Director or Music Director. Payola might have been illegal, but it didn't disappear.
The same principals continued when Radio and Records overtook Gavin as the radio 'bible'.
The same principals continued when Radio and Records overtook Gavin as the radio 'bible'.
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Music is too important to be left to professionals.
Music is too important to be left to professionals.
Stan: Thanks for your detailed response.
Airplay politics would seem to have had an impact on the outcome of a song's charting. All the while I was listening to the airwaves without any question of how a groups' success was determined. It would be very interesting to examine the role of Ed Sullivan's show on the charts, particularly for The Beatles and other British Invasion groups.
Certainly, at the end of the day, it is likely that some fine musicians got passed while others with less skills got the nod in such a system.
Airplay politics would seem to have had an impact on the outcome of a song's charting. All the while I was listening to the airwaves without any question of how a groups' success was determined. It would be very interesting to examine the role of Ed Sullivan's show on the charts, particularly for The Beatles and other British Invasion groups.
Certainly, at the end of the day, it is likely that some fine musicians got passed while others with less skills got the nod in such a system.
Life, as with music, often requires one to let go of the melody and listen to the rhythm
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The current UK charts include downloads as well as CD purchases. The first number one based on downloads only was last year when Gnarls Barkley was number one with "Crazy". It is only right that downloads are now included as it is such a big part of music sales now. I download quite a lot, but still prefer to buy CD albums.
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