Anyone have this problem with their Rick?

myoldself · Post by **myoldself** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 11:53 am

Hi

I have a 620... it's set up well and sounds great. Only problem is I haven't been able to tune it ever since I bought it!

I tune the OPEN strings to A440 just fine, but the STOP(fretted) notes are all sharp by a cent or two. So I solve this by tuning OPEN at A439, so that my STOP notes can play at A440. But now I have OPEN strings that are flat, so I avoid playing them.

Another solution is to tune by compensating between OPEN and STOP notes - essentially make OPEN strings a little flat, and STOP notes a little sharp, so I can have a little in between... ughh.

I suspect it's an error in the distance between the Nut and the 1st fret. All the frets play in tune in relation to eachother - just the OPEN strings are clearly different.

Anyone else have a problem like this? It's annoying and bad for recording. I'm scared to say that I might have to deal with Ric Warranty - thank god I sent in my warranty card.

Any thoughts?

steverok · Post by **steverok** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 11:58 am

It's called tuning a guitar. Every guitar I have ever owned does this to some extent. If you switch to a wound G, alot of your issues will go away.

jingle_jangle · Post by **jingle_jangle** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 12:01 pm

Your suspicion may be correct, although these fretboards are CNC cut, so that much of an error would be very unlikely...

Have you changed strings? You would do best to start out with RIC factory strings, compressed wound. They can be purchased from a Rick dealer or on RIC's own website, in the "Boutique" area.

Why be scared to deal with RIC warranty? They are perfectly friendly and reasonable people, headed by the estimable Mr. Kenny Howes, who will no doubt have a solution to your problem.

janglerocker · Post by **janglerocker** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 12:36 pm

This is coming from a complete neophyte in guitar anatomy,so I apologize ahead of time if this is a stupid question, but, is there a set distance between the nut and first fret that can be measured to determine if it is within spec? I'll assume the scale of the guitar would affect this but if someone could enlighten me I'd appreciate it.

doctorwho · Post by **doctorwho** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 12:37 pm

I'm with Paul about strings; I often buy a guitar that has been restrung with gauges different from the standard RIC set and no adjusted for intonation had been made, making the open tuning and fretted positions anharmonic.

It may simply need a little tweaking with the intonation. When the guitar is tuned to the correct pitch, what are the notes played at the 12th fret reading? If they are off by more than about 3-4 cents, then the intonation needs adjustment (which is not a big deal).

teb · Post by **teb** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 6:20 pm

You might find this to be interesting reading:

http://www.buzzfeiten.com/

I haven't tried it and can't tell you whether it's for real or snake oil, but one of these days, I may drop $100 and see for myself.

byu · Post by **byu** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 6:34 pm

Sounds to me like the nut may be cut a bit high. Having someone set it up by filing the nut slots with the right size files should fix the problem.

jingle_jangle · Post by **jingle_jangle** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 6:43 pm

Bill could be onto something, too.

Todd, we discussed the Feiten system at some length about two years ago. It does nothing but make first position chords and notes truer. Not snake oil, but not a panacea, either.

But it makes the people with doglike hearing quite happy.

eatswodo · Post by **eatswodo** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 7:15 pm

I agree with Gary - have you checked the overall intonation? Are the bridge saddles in the right place to give you the correct 12th fret intonation? They don't have to be off by much to make a guitar sound very sour indeed.

I know from recent, self-induced, experience on another (non-RIC) guitar, that unless you've got that right, you're wasting your time worrying about about the nut, fret placement, or anything else.

beatlefreak · Post by **beatlefreak** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 8:02 pm

Just to make sure you haven't overlooked anything simple - Is your action too high? If either the action is too high or the nut isn't cut deep enough, it will cause fretted notes to stretch the string more, causing the note to go sharp.

myoldself · Post by **myoldself** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 10:09 pm

Woah... so many replies. What a great resource for Ric owners! Thanks guys.

To answer some questions:

-The action and intonation were set up properly after I bought it, but it had different strings at the time. This might be my answer. As the action, saddle adjustments, nut height and the whole meal deal was setup according to the different strings, there's a good chance everything's way off due to my new string choice.

-The Feitman system looks fantastic! Yes, I have doglike hearing, which is why this nut business is driving me mad at the moment.

-I'm not "actually" afraid of Ric warranty... I'm just scared because of all the time it might take AND not being able to perform with my favorite guitar! I'm sure Ric are great to deal.. in fact whoever I spoke with on the phone was awesome!

As for all this nut talk... I still suspect that it may be the problem. Like I said in the top post, all the STOP notes across the board sound perfect in conjuction with eachother, which indicates that the harmonicity between the seperate strings is OK. So far the only discrepancy is between the nut and the first fret.

I'm not sure if I'm making sense at this point.
ANyways, thanks for pointing out some things I should be considering before I go nuts and buy a BFTS.

myoldself · Post by **myoldself** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 10:23 pm

One more thing...

Reading through the BFTS website, and in their industry testimonies section, there is mention of the very same problem I'm having. The problem of the fretted notes not playing properly against the open notes. It seems like a notorious problem, even on the finest guitars, and according to the testimonies, there hasn't been a solution.

Question for discussion: Is this at all a problem for most other guitarists in here? Perhaps it only affects the most doglike of hearing?

david

admin · Post by **admin** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 1:04 am

David: What gauge strings are you using and is the same problem evident on each string and to the same degree?

jimk · Post by **jimk** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 9:57 am

Question for discussion: Is this at all a problem for most other guitarists in here? Perhaps it only affects the most doglike of hearing?

If I understand the question correctly, the answer is Yes. Because the B string on my acoustic 6 string will go painfully out of tune playing in first position D, but sound acceptably in tune playing in C, for example. So a compromise needs to be reached.

JimK

jdogric12 · Post by **jdogric12** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 10:24 am

A good setup should do it. And a wound G.