6 SADDLE BRIDGE ON A 12 STRING

skeeterbuck · Post by **skeeterbuck** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 2:47 am

I have a 381/12, which as we all know comes with a 12 saddle bridge stock from the factory.

I am considering changing the string spacing to bring the pairs closer together. I was on the RIC website looking for replacement saddles and couldn't find them, so I guess that they are not available separately for the 12 saddle bridge.

What I want to know is this, if I buy a new bridge and change this guitar to a 6 saddle bridge what tonal difference can I expect to hear?

When you intonate the saddles on the 6 saddle bridge, do I adjust them for the standard string or the octave string?

admin · Post by **admin** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 3:49 am

Charles: I cannot believe that these would not be available, but confess that I have not bought any recently.

The only online site I noted that lists them this morning is here, however, it would be cheaper to buy a new bridge at these prices.

I would not switch to a 6 string saddle for this instrument as I don't think you will achieve the intonation you have come to expect with the 12 saddle bridge.

Scastles · Post by **Scastles** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 4:05 am

I'm with Peter on this one, Charles. I'd leave the 12 saddle on it.

admin · Post by **admin** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 4:18 am

Charles: You could also post under Rickenbackers Wanted. Some folks out there may have the saddles you need.

skeeterbuck · Post by **skeeterbuck** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 4:42 am

Peter and Stan,

Here is the problem I am dealing with and I believe that this is the same problem that John Hall has stated in the past.

I adjust the intonation using a Peterson strobe tuner, between the open and 12th fret tones. I am using new Rickenbacker strings and making the adjustments directly after the strings are installed.

After I have everything set, I play several open chords and they sound out of tune. So... I re-tune using my ear (tempered) and can get it to sound much better....not perfect but much better.
The nut is fine and playing in the first several positions is good.

My thinking is that if a Telecaster can play fine with a 3 saddle bridge, then a Rick 12 string should be able to with a 6 saddle bridge.

Is there some error in my thought process I'm missing? Believe me it won't be the first time! LOL

admin · Post by **admin** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 4:48 am

Charles: Which strings are out of tune following your set up?

skeeterbuck · Post by **skeeterbuck** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 5:29 am

Peter, IIRC the low E, D and G strings are the main ones.
No problem with the B and high E.

admin · Post by **admin** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 5:33 am

If you have used the strobe, I would look closely at the neck to see if it is perfectly straight especially at the bass side. Also, is it the main or harmonic strings that are out or both? Where are the experts when you need them? I hope they will respond here soon.

Scastles · Post by **Scastles** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 6:10 am

What about the adjustment of the bridge itself? Has it been changed?

skeeterbuck · Post by **skeeterbuck** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 7:44 am

The neck is straight. I use a straight edge to adjust it. The problem is, you tune both string to "read" in tune on the strobe, but when you fret them together they are not in tune with each other. I know for a fact that the low E string is the most off.

As to the adjustment of the bridge, are you referring to the height? If so no, when I do my set-ups, I adjusts the neck first, then the bridge height (action), and lastly the intonation.

johnallg · Post by **johnallg** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 11:11 am

How high are the strings off the first fret - i.e. does the nut slots need to be cut deeper?

skeeterbuck · Post by **skeeterbuck** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 11:28 am

John, I would estimate the distance from the top of the first fret to the bottom of the low E to be about .040 to .045 of an inch. A little less on the high E side.

I'm sure it could be lowered some, but the guitar plays fine in the lower positions.

Thanks everyone for trying to help me out.

Maybe it's just the "Nature of the Beast".

admin · Post by **admin** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 1:51 pm

Charles, I suspect that John is right, especially if the E A and D strings are going sharp when you fret them.

It is not the nature of the beast, and we will stick with you until the problem is resolved.

johnallg · Post by **johnallg** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 3:34 pm

There was a thread covering this issue about a year ago when I first joined and that is one thing I remember that was suggested, and I know it is so for my basses also - too high on the nut and the first few frets can go sharp.

skeeterbuck · Post by **skeeterbuck** » Sat Apr 14, 2007 4:52 am

OK, I thought about this problem last night and came up with a idea. Now, before I start this explanation understand that I will use as a reference the low E string, but the technique is the same, just repeated for the other strings.

Instead of using the 12 fret for a reference ( octave) to the harmonic note I used the 5th fret, or in the case of the low E string the A note. I tuned the harmonic A on the low E string to pitch using the strobe. I then fretted the 5th fret and played the A note. I then adjusted the bridge saddle until they matched.

I then went back and played the note up the neck to see the how well it played in tune. At the 3rd fret the G note was slightly sharp, the A note at the 5th fret was of course dead on. The B note at the 7th fret ow also OK. The C# at the 9th fret was slightly flat, and the E note at the 12 fret was a little flatter still.

Now, with these results, I went and continued doing the rest of the strings. When I was finished, I again use the strobe to tune all the open strings to pitch. I played an open G chord and it sounds near perfect. All the open chords sound very good. Now when you play up past the 10th fret is when you start to hear the notes go out of tune. Since I don't tend to play chords up that far on the neck it not a problem for me.

Thanks again to all the folks who helped. After this experience I have decided to keep the original 12 saddle bridge.