We all know that Jimmy Page was a well-regarded "session man" in the mid-60's, but as I look into it I am amazed by the endless list of songs he played on. I thought of citing as many as I could, but the list just goes on and on... It must be a strange legacy for him---he was never lacking work as a session player, but at the same time, a lot of his fellow musicians resented him. Imagine how they must have felt: they wrote and played great new music, finally got their own recording contract...only to have some hired gunslinger who never heard the song before replace them on their own recording. It's not surprising that many of his contemporaries still speak of him with some cattiness, despite his obvious achievements.
He must have gone through many uncomfortable workdays. I thought this was an interesting quote regarding his session work:
"...I should say that I was mainly called into sessions as insurance. It was usually myself and a drummer, though they never mention the drummer these days; just me.
On the Them session, it was very embarrassing because you noticed that as each number passed, another member of the band would be substituted for by a session musician. It was really horrifying. Talk about daggers! There'd be times you'd be sitting there-- you didn't want to be there, you'd only been booked-- and wishing you weren't there.
The group went in thinking they were going to record and all of a sudden they find these other people playing on their records. Okay, trouble with the guitarist...fair enough...but with Them, the organist was replaced, then the bass player's position was in jeopardy -- it's a miracle they didn't replace Van Morrison!"
Jimmy Page in the 60's
-
lyle_from_minneapolis
- Advanced Member
- Posts: 2530
- Joined: Sun Nov 19, 2006 7:13 pm
Jimmy Page in the 60's
Here is where I hide my music:
http://www.soundclick.com/MarkKaufman
http://www.soundclick.com/MarkKaufman
I don't care what people think of him, I think he is one of the greatest guitar players going. Did he play lead on Baby Please Don't Go by Them? I thought they were a great band, now I know why they sounded so good. The bass player was very good unless he too was a session musician.
JPJ also did a lot of sessions and is a great underrated bass player, maybe he did Them, haha!
JPJ also did a lot of sessions and is a great underrated bass player, maybe he did Them, haha!
-
lyle_from_minneapolis
- Advanced Member
- Posts: 2530
- Joined: Sun Nov 19, 2006 7:13 pm
I'm pretty sure he did not play the lead, Bob...but no one sounds very definitive on the sites I've been viewing.
Here is where I hide my music:
http://www.soundclick.com/MarkKaufman
http://www.soundclick.com/MarkKaufman
It seems that he did play lead on Baby Please Don't Go Mark.
An excerpt from his bio.
Date of Birth
9 January 1944, Heston, Middlesex, England, UK
Birth Name
James Patrick Page
Height
5' 11" (1.80 m)
Spouse
Patricia Ecker (1986 - 16 January 1995) (divorced) 1 child
Jimena Gomez-Paratcha (? - present) 2 children
Charlotte Martin (? - ?) (divorced) 1 child
Trivia
Owns much of the property around Loch Ness in Scotland, UK.
As of 1998, he ranks number 15 in the world's 100 richest rock stars with an estimated worth of £55m.
Starting out as a studio session hack, his early guitar licks have featured on the recordings of artists such as Donovan, Tom Jones, P.J. Proby, Joe Cocker, Herman's Hermits, The Rolling Stones, The Yardbirds and The Who, etc. As he was then unable to read music, he was given advice by fellow session guitarist Vic Flick. His work on The Kinks's "You Really Got Me" and "All Day and All of the Night", along with his indelible licks on early Van Morrison track "Baby Please Don't Go", are legendary.
His guitar solo on Dave Berry's 1964 UK top ten hit "The Crying Game" featured some pioneering use of the wah-wah pedal, later popularized by Jimi Hendrix on his "Electric Ladyland" album."
An excerpt from his bio.
Date of Birth
9 January 1944, Heston, Middlesex, England, UK
Birth Name
James Patrick Page
Height
5' 11" (1.80 m)
Spouse
Patricia Ecker (1986 - 16 January 1995) (divorced) 1 child
Jimena Gomez-Paratcha (? - present) 2 children
Charlotte Martin (? - ?) (divorced) 1 child
Trivia
Owns much of the property around Loch Ness in Scotland, UK.
As of 1998, he ranks number 15 in the world's 100 richest rock stars with an estimated worth of £55m.
Starting out as a studio session hack, his early guitar licks have featured on the recordings of artists such as Donovan, Tom Jones, P.J. Proby, Joe Cocker, Herman's Hermits, The Rolling Stones, The Yardbirds and The Who, etc. As he was then unable to read music, he was given advice by fellow session guitarist Vic Flick. His work on The Kinks's "You Really Got Me" and "All Day and All of the Night", along with his indelible licks on early Van Morrison track "Baby Please Don't Go", are legendary.
His guitar solo on Dave Berry's 1964 UK top ten hit "The Crying Game" featured some pioneering use of the wah-wah pedal, later popularized by Jimi Hendrix on his "Electric Ladyland" album."
“We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them.” - Albert Einstein
"You do not really understand something unless you can explain it to your grandmother" - Albert Einstein
"You do not really understand something unless you can explain it to your grandmother" - Albert Einstein
-
lyle_from_minneapolis
- Advanced Member
- Posts: 2530
- Joined: Sun Nov 19, 2006 7:13 pm
Hmm, I dunno, Brian... I'm a huge admirer of JP, but the jury is still out on that particular solo. Many sites declare it was him. but this site http://www.makingtime.co.uk/them.html says:
'For many years Jimmy Page was rumoured to have played the outstanding lead guitar part on the a-side, this may not, in fact, be the case. What is not doubted though was that Page was involved in the Them recordings as were other session musicians at the time. Page may have contributed some rhythm guitar to Baby Please Don't Go with Billy Harrison playing the famous "lick."'
There are some other theories too, but I don't claim to know definitively. "The Crying Game" solo was actually done by Big Jim Sullivan (people called him "Big Jim" and they called Page "Little Jim" with plenty of respect for both), one of the great unremembered guitarists, a man who gave guitar lessons to Steve Howe and Ritchie Blackmore.
'For many years Jimmy Page was rumoured to have played the outstanding lead guitar part on the a-side, this may not, in fact, be the case. What is not doubted though was that Page was involved in the Them recordings as were other session musicians at the time. Page may have contributed some rhythm guitar to Baby Please Don't Go with Billy Harrison playing the famous "lick."'
There are some other theories too, but I don't claim to know definitively. "The Crying Game" solo was actually done by Big Jim Sullivan (people called him "Big Jim" and they called Page "Little Jim" with plenty of respect for both), one of the great unremembered guitarists, a man who gave guitar lessons to Steve Howe and Ritchie Blackmore.
Here is where I hide my music:
http://www.soundclick.com/MarkKaufman
http://www.soundclick.com/MarkKaufman
Mark,
I remember "Big Jim" Probably one of the few that do. Even though I am not sure who played what back then a little research turned up a site about him. The following site lists his many accomplishments. Baby Please Don't Go is not one of them. Now this may not be definitive but it seems odd that one song is not listed while many other huge hits are.
http://bigjimsullivan.com/History.html
I remember "Big Jim" Probably one of the few that do. Even though I am not sure who played what back then a little research turned up a site about him. The following site lists his many accomplishments. Baby Please Don't Go is not one of them. Now this may not be definitive but it seems odd that one song is not listed while many other huge hits are.
http://bigjimsullivan.com/History.html
“We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them.” - Albert Einstein
"You do not really understand something unless you can explain it to your grandmother" - Albert Einstein
"You do not really understand something unless you can explain it to your grandmother" - Albert Einstein
Good thread, Mark. A lot has been said about Page -- that he did not appear on sessions that he gets credit for and apparantely Jimmy does nothing to refute those. There used to be a site that listed all of his studio credits but it's been gone for some time. His better noted sessions would make a great double CD. The one currently in release has only the early works. Probably the only songs that they could get a license for.
Leprosy is rare & scarce but nobody wants that!
-
lyle_from_minneapolis
- Advanced Member
- Posts: 2530
- Joined: Sun Nov 19, 2006 7:13 pm
Dang, Brian...I followed your link and found this quote from Big Jim hisself:
The older session men used to call me the 'Electric Monster' because I used to make the guitar scream and groan when I bent and pulled the strings. I remember making quite an impact with the tone and volume pedal when I used it on Dave Berry's "Crying Game". Even to this day people still argue as to whether it was me or Jimmy Page playing on the track.
The older session men used to call me the 'Electric Monster' because I used to make the guitar scream and groan when I bent and pulled the strings. I remember making quite an impact with the tone and volume pedal when I used it on Dave Berry's "Crying Game". Even to this day people still argue as to whether it was me or Jimmy Page playing on the track.
Here is where I hide my music:
http://www.soundclick.com/MarkKaufman
http://www.soundclick.com/MarkKaufman
-
lyle_from_minneapolis
- Advanced Member
- Posts: 2530
- Joined: Sun Nov 19, 2006 7:13 pm
I'm an idiot, you were talking about Them.
Yes, I think he would have mentioned that, wouldn't he? So it was probably Jimmy...
Yes, I think he would have mentioned that, wouldn't he? So it was probably Jimmy...
Here is where I hide my music:
http://www.soundclick.com/MarkKaufman
http://www.soundclick.com/MarkKaufman
No you are not an idiot. That website that I discovered (thanks to you) is a site is chock full of information. Pretty interesting stuff really. Enjoy.
I am glad you started this thread. Every day that you learn something useful, is a day worth living to the fullest.
I am glad you started this thread. Every day that you learn something useful, is a day worth living to the fullest.
“We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them.” - Albert Einstein
"You do not really understand something unless you can explain it to your grandmother" - Albert Einstein
"You do not really understand something unless you can explain it to your grandmother" - Albert Einstein
-
lyle_from_minneapolis
- Advanced Member
- Posts: 2530
- Joined: Sun Nov 19, 2006 7:13 pm
You're kind, Brian, and I AM an idiot. But I'm okay with that. It makes life easier. To prove I'm an idiot, one of the sites I cited has the following pertinent info that I missed:
"In October 1964 [Them] recorded "Baby Please Don't Go", a number credited to Big Joe Williams, but later found to have been composed by Papa Harvey Hull and Long Cleeve Reid in the 1920's. [...] Jimmy Page, at that time one of London's brightest young session guitarists, was brought in for the recordings by Dick Rowe; he played a lick on it inspired by Paul Burlisson's riff on "Train Kept a-Rollin", by Johnny Burnette and the Rock'n'Roll Trio. He played some rhythm fills but would later be creditted with the impressive lead riff, something which both Alan Henderson and Billy Harrison deny was the case."
and
"Patrick Clerkin notes that:
I met [Them keyboardist] Jackie McAuley some years back, when he was playing with his band "Poormouth" and I asked him about Jimmy Page's involvement with Them. He swears that Jimmy Page was not in the studio when he was recording, although Jackie McAuley did not play on all of Them's records. He said he heard later that Jimmy Page was taken in to add rhythm guitar on some of the tracks. He was very adamant that Billy Harrison played lead on "Baby Please Don't Go" and it annoys him to read that Jimmy Page has often been given the credit, where it was not due."
from
http://www.harbour.sfu.ca/~hayward/van/glossary/page.html
...so the mystery continues.
"In October 1964 [Them] recorded "Baby Please Don't Go", a number credited to Big Joe Williams, but later found to have been composed by Papa Harvey Hull and Long Cleeve Reid in the 1920's. [...] Jimmy Page, at that time one of London's brightest young session guitarists, was brought in for the recordings by Dick Rowe; he played a lick on it inspired by Paul Burlisson's riff on "Train Kept a-Rollin", by Johnny Burnette and the Rock'n'Roll Trio. He played some rhythm fills but would later be creditted with the impressive lead riff, something which both Alan Henderson and Billy Harrison deny was the case."
and
"Patrick Clerkin notes that:
I met [Them keyboardist] Jackie McAuley some years back, when he was playing with his band "Poormouth" and I asked him about Jimmy Page's involvement with Them. He swears that Jimmy Page was not in the studio when he was recording, although Jackie McAuley did not play on all of Them's records. He said he heard later that Jimmy Page was taken in to add rhythm guitar on some of the tracks. He was very adamant that Billy Harrison played lead on "Baby Please Don't Go" and it annoys him to read that Jimmy Page has often been given the credit, where it was not due."
from
http://www.harbour.sfu.ca/~hayward/van/glossary/page.html
...so the mystery continues.
Here is where I hide my music:
http://www.soundclick.com/MarkKaufman
http://www.soundclick.com/MarkKaufman
-
lyle_from_minneapolis
- Advanced Member
- Posts: 2530
- Joined: Sun Nov 19, 2006 7:13 pm
Here is where I hide my music:
http://www.soundclick.com/MarkKaufman
http://www.soundclick.com/MarkKaufman
For all Jimmy Page fans , this Portuguese site is probably a must, through Google I have translated to English though in parts leaves a bit to be desired in translation.
Opens at part 4 for some reason, my inability probably,but scroll to bottom of page (no pun intended) and you can get back to Part 1
click GGLG:2005-39,GGLG:en%26sa%3DN,here
Opens at part 4 for some reason, my inability probably,but scroll to bottom of page (no pun intended) and you can get back to Part 1
click GGLG:2005-39,GGLG:en%26sa%3DN,here
TODAY'S THE FIRST DAY OF THE REST OF YOUR LIFE
Interestingly enough Roy there is a segment on that site that discusses the band Les Fleur De Leys. I knew Frank Smith (the lead guitarist). He lived in Southampton near the New Forest. As you know we had the same manager.
Jimmy Page played on their single and wrote and played lead on the instrumental "B" side.
I was not previously aware of their connection albeit obscure, to Jefferson Airplane (Starship?). Thanks for the link.
Jimmy Page played on their single and wrote and played lead on the instrumental "B" side.
I was not previously aware of their connection albeit obscure, to Jefferson Airplane (Starship?). Thanks for the link.
“We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them.” - Albert Einstein
"You do not really understand something unless you can explain it to your grandmother" - Albert Einstein
"You do not really understand something unless you can explain it to your grandmother" - Albert Einstein
-
lyle_from_minneapolis
- Advanced Member
- Posts: 2530
- Joined: Sun Nov 19, 2006 7:13 pm
What a great site, Roy, thanks. Even though the translation machine is making me miserable.
Here is where I hide my music:
http://www.soundclick.com/MarkKaufman
http://www.soundclick.com/MarkKaufman