Wave in 4003 4-2-5 Neck

qwezirider · Post by **qwezirider** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 7:01 pm

I'm going to try the route tomorrow of making a couple straight rods rather than mess with the factory rods just yet. I saw another post here that gave the thread dimensions to cut. And the rod stock I bought to tap out the real rods is the exact dimensions and appears to be a similar strength. At least that way I have factory rods on which to fall back.

Nothing like having a one of a kind feature on a Rick!

markbass99 · Post by **markbass99** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 1:13 am

I would try to straighten those rods, it would probably be less time consuming then making new ones. Those rods are mild steel and will not be hurt by gently bending back in the opposite direction of the current bend if you use a small vise to anchor them in. You just have to be patient and take your time, as you straighten a little section at a time move the rod in the vise until you work your way down the rod, it doesn't have to be perfect just reasonably straight.

When I'm talking about upbow I'm referring to a concave condition(relief). If you have this without strings on and the rods out then the neck will be difficult to adjust straight as the rods will be fighting the curve and the strings. More desirable would be to have a little backbow(convex), the string tension would cancel this out and the rods would work effortlessly, flat is good also.

I had a bass with curved rods like yours and they had flipped over so that they were fighting the straightening force. When I pulled the strings off and loosened the rods nuts, a straight edge showed that the neck had an upbow(concave). This lead me to believe there was a curve in the neck wood. After I pulled the rods out(yes the tape jammed and made it a real *****), I then realized the neck wood had a slight backbow(convex) which was great news. The curved rods were forcing an upbow and creating a condition difficult to adjust out. I also had some weird conditions in my upper frets 12+(buzzing), this all went away after I straightened my rods and did a good setup.

qwezirider · Post by **qwezirider** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 6:16 am

That's good to hear, Mark. I definitely have the back bow without strings on. Glad to hear your results with the upper fret buzz too when going with straight rods.

Getting away from the questioning phase of the thread, I was slightly intrigued by the lack of "high tech" when I got the rods out. I've been adjusting my necks for some time but never went beyond that. It always seemed like some dark magical art that was being used inside there, especially when you read of upgraded technology between 4001 and 4003 models. Then I finally rips these two out and find something akin to hardware store steel and masking tape.

Still kind of cool to me how something so pedestrian in terms of technology can make such a difference in a neck's behaviour.

Rambling on.

charlyg · Post by **charlyg** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 6:22 am

I'm real curious as to how this turns out. If that wave was due to bent rods, we have discovered an easy fix to a previously "unfixable" issue.

qwezirider · Post by **qwezirider** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 10:27 am

Results so far: rods are now straight, went in easily but snug without tape, reassembled and restrung..............

No odd wave at 12th fret!

However, there's still a considerable backbow (not tremendous, but it's there) with rods completely loose. So at this point I'll try a heavier gauge of strings (should be here in the mail today) and see if that snugs the neck back into dead straight...or at least closer. At least there is improvement in the neck in that the wave is gone.

Thank you everyone for your knowledge and patience.

johnallg · Post by **johnallg** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 11:06 am

Good news so far Bruce, especially the improvement at the 12th fret. As for the backbow with loose rods, I take it you mean when strung up.

qwezirider · Post by **qwezirider** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 11:38 am

Yes, when strung up. There is enough back bow removed to now be playable, albeit with the bridge too high. The action does not become annoyingly high until above the 12th fret. Good enough for Johnny Cash tribute band music.

Just waiting for heavier strings to see where that takes this.

Makes me wonder what an ever so slight curve in the rods would achieve. Hmmm.......

johnallg · Post by **johnallg** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 3:44 pm

I was going to suggest that but wanted to know first if the backbow was with or without strings.

qwezirider · Post by **qwezirider** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 5:38 pm

I even played with using only one truss rod with no success in getting rid of the back bow. no dice. Heavier strings in my future.

IF, however, none of that works, I am heavily lobbying the household financier that I simply must have yet another Rick.

johnallg · Post by **johnallg** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 6:10 pm

If all else fails, contact Paul or Dale for advice on straightening. Steaming and clamping would remove some of the backbow.

qwezirider · Post by **qwezirider** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 6:19 pm

Found this in a 2005 John Hall post in the Ric forum, pertaining to what you're saying about heat and clamping:

"6. Finally, and if all else fails, you'll want to give the neck the heat treatment. Generally this is something for a luthier although it's not high tech. You need to carefully clamp the whole instrument to a strong work surface, bend the neck over some padded blocks to create a smooth arc slightly beyond what you really want. Place a 70 to 85 watt lamp, something like a flood lamp for instance (but not a heat lamp) near the neck and warm it up all day. You can allow it to get a litle warmer than you can comfortably touch but not too much warmer than that. (The paint and binding are good until you get above 200 degrees.) Then let it cool overnight and see if it will hold the adjustment."

Question now is, should this be done with strings on or off? Rods in or out of the neck? Do I gather correctly, since I'm trying to correct a back bow, that I'll be clamping the bass face down and heating the back of the neck? I'm on my last idea everyone has been kind enough to provide in correcting this back bow.

johnallg · Post by **johnallg** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 3:18 pm

I would say no strings, the rods totally loose but still in would be ok, and face up. You want to have the body flat to the work surface, but the neck gently and consistently arcing up away from the work surface - ie you want to take out a bit of the back bow you have, but not enough to introduce an upbow that the string tension would exacerbate and the rods would have to correct for more.

"create a smooth arc slightly beyond what you really want"

qwezirider · Post by **qwezirider** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:52 am

Update in activities with this bass. I finally had some down time to work on the neck with a clamp and some heat. And, as I initially found with adjusting necks in the first place, it was no big deal and easier than sweating bullets over a clamp on the neck indicated.

Moderate success. I'm reserving final appraisal for a few days to see how it holds, but as of now the neck is dead straight. I used a couple of hefty books to suspend the bass over the table and adjusted them and the clamp a bit until it looked like they were all in proper places for the "smooth arc slightly beyond what" I really wanted. Then I gently cranked down the clamp to give it just a bit more relief than it should have, just so I would have something to work with during humidity changes.

Heated it with a 75 watt automotive work light for the day, turned off the light last night before bed, and removed the clamp this morning. There was absolutely no relief and no back bow this morning with completely loose truss rods. No wave at the 12th fret as previously discussed, either.

Tuned it up, dropped the bridge back down to a nice low level, fiddled a bit more with tuning and bridge adjusting, and I think we're there. Barring any humidity changes that throw a back bow in again, I think it's where it should be. Time to try my preferred insanely light strings and see where it goes from there.

And if it needs another coaxing, no big deal. Whew! Sanity restored!

johnallg · Post by **johnallg** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 11:00 am

Good news, Bruce! As you stated, time will tell if an increase of humidity will affect the neck in the backbow direction, but for now you have what you need. Enjoy the better action!

dale_fortune · Post by **dale_fortune** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 5:54 pm

A 1500 watt infra red heat lamp will do the work in about 10 to 15 minutes. I've never used a 75 watt lamp so I have no experience with one, but i would think it would not work since it's only a simple light bulb with no penetrating heat value. The heat lamp and a special clamping system will straighten or take the bad spots out of the neck. Caution: you can also ruin a neck if this is not done properly.