Advice needed

lyle_from_minneapolis · Wed Jul 04, 2007 9:51 am

What usually happens in the head is a strong desire to go right to the next note, and the novice player will forget about rests and beats. The metronome may or may not work...put him on bongos and he may keep a steady beat, but going from one note to another is a different part of the mind, and jumping the beat is very common. One way or another, he needs to learn how to be aware of the passing rhythm while he also chooses what note to play, when to play it, and how to play it. That's a lot of brain action that only humans can piece together all at once.

scala · Post by **scala** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 9:53 am

im with you on this one scott,"inside of a groove" i like that one,

also mark, the bass face killed me, i know exactly what you mean.

doctorwho · Post by **doctorwho** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 9:56 am

This thread is better suited for the "On Being For The Benefit Of Musicianship" section.

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 4:28 pm

Some people never get a good sense of timing ...

timing is one of the characteristics that differentiate between an average bass player and a great bass player ...

and instead of a metronome get a cheap drum machine ...

what is worse than a bass player with bad timing is a drummer with bad timing ...

teb · Post by **teb** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 6:09 pm

Sounds silly, but I seriously wonder whether the best answer might be to enroll him in dance lessons....???? One of the reasons that someone is smitten by bass playing is that they identify strongly with the rhythm aspects of the music they hear and seem to feel it down deep somewhere (plus you can hustle chicks as soon as the basic tracks are done, while the other guys are still fooling around with overdubs).

leesh · Post by **leesh** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 10:05 pm

I just purchased GuitarPro which has play-along tabs for all of the parts of a song (you purchase the program and can download an unlimited amount of songs for free) and I've found that it's a great way to play along with a song in the given tempo.

That way you get the groove as well as the option of adding a metronome if you need it.

henry5 · Post by **henry5** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 12:25 am

I tend to agree with Jeff; some people just never get it. I've taught someone before who had no sense of time and no matter what I did he couldn't get it. You have to try though!

I would suggest a drum machine as preferable to a metronome, simply because it's more realistic to play against and I feel it sets a groove better. In the old days I used to record demos using a cheap drum machine and it helped my timing no end (although I'll never be a Jaco, who has possibly the best timing of any electric bassist I've ever heard).

When I first went to London and joined a band we got signed up by a small independent label (nothing came of it unfortunately). We started recording an album and the drummer put all the drums down first.I then came to do the bass, and I couldn't get it at all. I just could not get in time with the drums and I spent hours trying; I was young at the time, it was my first break, and my confidence plummeted. I thought I just wasn't good enough after all. Then the engineer suggested putting a click down and getting me to play to that. I nailed everything first time (I'd never played to a click before; to be honest, they're not really my preference even now). It turned out it was the drummer who had time issues. Talk about a scare.

phlemmy · Post by **phlemmy** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 3:21 am

put on judas priest's british steel or ac/dc's powerage. that will get them in time.

shinynewtoy · Post by **shinynewtoy** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 4:57 am

Ditto on the drum machine... have him practice to different patterns and rhythms, slow tempos to fast.
A little trick I came up with since I've been using a prefab beat to play to... if I have something I'm working on, I slow the tempo way down on it for a while, just to get a feel for the space between the notes and where what I'm playing fits in. 99% of the time, when I speed it back up I'm more accurate and the whole thing feels MUCH better.

Suggestion... M-Audio Black Box and a pair of phones. 99 completely adjustable beats, a few good bass sounds (geared toward guitarists, but the bass models it does have are good) and you can adjust the bass- drum mix to your liking. I use it for outboard amp modeling and just as a jam toy, but it'd make a really fun practice tool.

haw · Post by **haw** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 7:09 am

Wow! Cheers for the responses.

He's aware that his timing is becoming a problem but says that he's fine with a drummer behind him. That's ok as it goes, but I've seen his band and the drummer can barely hold a beat.

Anyway, I sat down with him yesterday and as it turns out he has a Boss TU-80 with a built in metronome so I thought, what the hey, lets have a bash.

One of the tunes he wants to learn is Wolfmothers "Dimension", which is pretty easy really. For simple on the beat stuff in the verse he's ok. Anytime he has to play notes that cross beats especially in the chorus then his timing goes berserk-he starts speeding up and it's like he becomes unaware of the fact that there's a metronome bip-bopping like an 80's Casio in the background.

It's gonna take a while methinks!

rickfan63 · Post by **rickfan63** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 8:55 am

It takes a certain amount of natural talent to play bass, or any musical instrument. The cold hard facts are that some people just don't have it. I wouldn't give up on this guy yet though. It might just take some time for things to kick in.

lyle_from_minneapolis · Thu Jul 05, 2007 3:55 pm

No, don't give up on him! If he can nail a verse, then he has what it takes.

It sounds like he just over-thinks when it gets difficult and ends up rushing to hit the next notes. Todd is right--he needs to work on that dancer's internal feel for "one-two-three-four"...but as far as dancing lessons, well, not many bass-playing dudes are gonna go there, are they?

Since he only rushes on the chorus, maybe have him do JUST the chorus, over and over again, until that "A HA!" moment hits him.

henry5 · Post by **henry5** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 1:39 am

What about recording him? That way he may be able to hear better where he's going wrong. When I first started attempting fast runs I thought I was pretty close until I recorded something and played it back. It really showed how far off I was. Maybe it'll work for him too.