Modern Vs. Vintage

[doctorno]

Hello everybody,

I would like to start a new discussion about a topic that has been on my mind for quite some time now. As far as I can see most of you Rickenbacker enthusiasts are interested in vintage style guitars and a vintage style of music: The Beatles, The Byrds and the guitars they used ... I must confess that while I love the groups I just mentioned, this has been a frustrating experience to me as a devotee to Rickenbacker guitars: I love Rickenbacker guitars - but I love them because of their "modern" features rather than because of their "vintage" ones.

Recently I have purchased a 325C64 and compared it to my 325V59 built 15 years earlier.

There are two things I found out:

First of all there have obviously been some "improvements": the C-series guitars are very similar to the ones that John Lennon used in the 1960s. "Back to the future" - I guess ... ...

Second: These improvements often seem to be a step back rather than a step forward to me compared to the V-series: the RIC Accent vibrato is just awful, so is the roller bridge, so are the rubber grommets, the five knobs. I am still not sure about the 7.4k pickups, the construction of the guitar a.s.o. ...

Maybe I am wrong with my observations, but I think there is a question to be asked: where do you think Rickenbacker should go in the future? Should they go back to the models that have made them popular in the past? Or should they go on and develop new models? They could do that without denying their achievements of the past - they have already proved this with the 650 series, which I love very, very much.

But should they not go on to develope these achievements further (the 650 series, the 660) - rather than bothering with John Lennon reissues (the C-series)?

I am curious to read about your opinion.

Kind regards,
Markus.

[sloop_john_b]

Markus, it would seem to me that right now, RIC is doing a good job of satisfying both parties.

Everyone who was clamouring for "exact" reissues of the Beatle guitars got what they wanted in the C series, which replaced the good-but-inaccurate V series. Yes, even if that means weaker pickups, rattling roller bridges, and the Kaufmann Vibrola.

Everyone who wants a more modern "performance" guitar in a Rickenbacker is getting there with the 650's - tall frets, wide fingerboard, solid body with humbuckers, option for a modern vibrato system. These guitars are ideal for lead playing and quite versatile.

I suppose if you want the best of both worlds, you could always put three HB-1's in your 325v59. Perhaps a Floyd Rose, too?

Re: five knobs vs. four knobs, i'm not sure I understand what you mean? John's '58 325 had four knobs, and his '64 325 had five knobs. This is always accurately reflected in the reissue models.

[beatlefreak]

Well. I like Rickenbacker for their quality. As far as new vs. vintage, I'm into both aspects of it. I've got my 325V59 (and a 360/12C63 on the way) for the vintage stuff, but I've also got my 650S, which is the main guitar I use in my band. We do classic rock (everything from the seventies to the nineties), and the 650 simply rocks!

I don't see why RIC can't do both the C series (It's not just Beatles guitars), plus develop newer models. Obviously, right now they're busy with reducing their backlog. Once they accomplish that, I'd love to see some new designs. It would be great to see something new in a bass design, as previous designs that looked different from the 4001/4003 shape have all gone extinct.

[kenposurf]

Interesting observations.....electric guitars by their nature, lend themselves to modifications/"improvements" etc. For years I never would even consider playing a Ric that had anything other then toaster pups "gotta have that vintage sound" my 330 that I recently found has the high gains and I've found them to be wonderful for a stinging style of lead work. Rickenbacker guitars were the choice of so many great 60's artists that it should be expected that many players desire to own the exact same model/spec guitars. I think one could make whatever impovements/mods desired easily enough...slap a Bigsby on that mother it desired..change pups etc. I have often heard and can relate to the often brought up demand for a wider nut on the 12's...buy a 660/12...much better...for me, the Rick reissues are overall a much better buy and far more desirable then what Fender has been up to as of late..ie the Jeff Beck Relic Tele...so....grab one and make it fit your style..or not! A good electric guitar like a 50's Chevy's are cool stock or hop em up..your choice...

[bitzerguy]

I, for one, play all kinds of music on my Rics, not just "vintage". From surf to modern "diva" (Shakira, KT Tunstall) I get exactly what I am looking for every time. They are the only guitars I own that rarely, if ever go out of tune (and I love David Gilmour style bends and abusing the neck for mild vibrato). My 600 series guitars sustain forever and can handle anything from vintage to metal. My 350 is very blues, or vintage, or newer rock (Matt Mays for one)

The quality of all three of my Rics is unmatched by any other guitar I own (a Gibson LP, several very new Godins). Most of these (except the Godin Exit22) are one trick ponies, while the Rics are very versatile. The finish is still way ahead of it's time, as are the dual TR necks, the rear routed and capped bodies (for the hollows), the blend knob, neck through designs (on the 600s and basses). The finishes are incomparable to most anything else in a production guitar.

RE: vibratos - I have had Bigsby equipped, Floyd Rose equipped, and other no-name vibratos and they were all much worse than my Accent. IMO this was due to poor set up, and wrong application (the Accent is not a dive bomber). This could be why your Accent experience is less than satisfactory as well.

Seems to me that Rics are way ahead of their time even in 2007. The market for Rics bears this out as well, as can be noted by the order backlog. I think it also bears noting that the 600 style guitars are darn near as "vintage" as the 300 series, if not more.

I'm not quite sure how to improve on something every one else is still copying, sells out faster than you can make them, with the quality of a modern Ric.

My idea for a development? Perhaps a good quality accurate MIDI tracking model might be nice.

Just my nickel worth.

...Dean

[jwr2]

Rickenbackers and Rickenbacker users are for the most part quite retro ... take the 4003 with the mechanical mute, pickup cover, and Ric-o-sound ... all obsolete features ...

Then factor in that Ric makes no active instruments and no 5 string basses ... most of the new models in the last 20 years have been reissues of 50s and 60s style instruments ...

[sloop_john_b]

Obsolete to whom, exactly?

[phlemmy]

I like modern and vintage Ric basses, as long as they're dipped in black.

[gray]

I just like classics.

[ol_reb]

Wow....some great reading here. I like all the Rickenbackers but my favorite is the 350. (With the 650 right behind it)

I would love to see a 350 solidbody kinda rigged like the 650. Humbuckers, wide frets etc.

That would be a classic guitar. I've been campaigning for a 350 SB for years. But it seems I'm the only person who's interested in that.

Probably after I'm dead & gone someone at RIC will say, "Hmmm....lets make a new model. How about a 350 solidbody?"

[kenposurf]

99% of Strats/Teles sold today are 99% the same guitar as they were 45 years ago....same goes for Les Pauls...a classic is a classic....

[xsubs]

Sean,
I like mine white... but your new 4003 looks awesome!

[freshmattyp]

I hold out hope that someday there will be a 360/12 body with a 660/12 neck.

[firstbassman]

"I hold out hope that someday there will be a 360/12 body with a 660/12 neck."

There was (sort of):



http://www.rickenbacker.com/model.asp?model=380L

[freshmattyp]

I've lusted for one of those for a long time. All it needs is 6 more strings...