Kauffman question

karl_teten · Post by **karl_teten** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 5:44 am

Sorry John but there was a 50's plate that was different than the 60's plate. I have numbers of photos for comparison. Not only were the holes drilled differently but the 50's plate was slighter taller.

johnhall · Post by **johnhall** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 6:22 am

You're confused by the trapeeze plate, which is a different animal altogther. Among those, there are some with different hole patterns but we're talking Kauffman plates here.

karl_teten · Post by **karl_teten** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 7:55 am

No confusion John though a trap tail works perfectly on the taller 50's plate. I have close up photos of 300 series Capris as well as a couple of '58 325's with the taller end plate. Also a C58 plate next to an original taller 50's plate for comparison. They are two different animals.

lyle_from_minneapolis · Tue Jul 24, 2007 8:13 am

Counsel for the Defense is hereby instructed to produce said photos.

elysrand · Post by **elysrand** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 8:30 am

....my hero Perry Mason didn't need no discovery....

....he just canted those eyebrows and glared, and they fell all over themselves confessing every week at the end of the episode....

beatlefreak · Post by **beatlefreak** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 9:40 am

I don't get this. We keep hearing about how fifties Kauffmans are different from the sixties ones, yet John says there were no sixties Kauffmans.

?

lyle_from_minneapolis · Tue Jul 24, 2007 9:47 am

That's why I think Karl's pics would help us all understand a little better. I am clueless but very interested.

leftybass · Post by **leftybass** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 10:15 am

It's not the Kauffman itself they are referring to, but the bracket that holds it to the body......The height of the hooks off the body end I suppose. I don't think there was any difference from '58 to '59, but maybe John Williams and Larry could post some pics of their '59 315 and '58 325 respectively. Since JH is talking about a trapeze bracket, two Kauffmans side by side may not show anything....

Wouldn't a guitar with a Kauffman BUT with a deeper ramp allow enough clearance as well? The hooks would be higher off the body if this was the case...sounds like it, anyway...YMMV..

johnhall · Post by **johnhall** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 10:49 am

Yeah, I'll say it again- there ARE no 60's Kauffmans, only 50's and before, all parts for which were produced many years earlier.

The height is just a matter of where you drill the mounting holes.

karl_teten · Post by **karl_teten** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 12:41 pm

There were no 60's Kauffmans. I am talking about the end plate that was used in the 50's that the 50's Kauffmans connected to.

The C58's have 60's end plates which make the 50's Kauffman vibrato sit directly on the face of the guitar making it useless as the springs rest on wood.

Two different end plates. The C58 has the wrong end plate.

I don't know how to post on this forum. Someone email me that knows how to post here and I'll send you the works.

karl_teten · Post by **karl_teten** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 1:24 pm

Photos sent to Peter McCormack, Dale Fortune and John Simmons.

leftybass · Post by **leftybass** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 2:13 pm

Here's one of the pics that Karl sent me, the one on top is vintage while the bottom endpiece is from a C58 (is that right, Karl?)

I'll try to put up some more in a while, may the others will beat me to some of them...

karl_teten · Post by **karl_teten** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 2:32 pm

You are correct. 50's top. 60's/V-C series bottom. The taller end bracket would let the Kauffman sit higher letting the springs float freely. Larry W's and Ron C's 1958 325's both have these taller brackets.

glen_l · Post by **glen_l** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 9:42 pm

I knew the screw patterns were different, because I've been looking for an old style one to complete my '58 345. I didn't realise the height was different, but it sure does look like it.

The 60's end brackets were only being used for plain trapeze tailpieces (until '64) and so less clearance from the body was required. Seems they did reduce the height of the bracket, possibly when they started slimming the guitar bodies.

leftybass · Post by **leftybass** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 12:13 am

I had thought the same thing about the screw holes, Glen...I had figured the later ones had been drilled differently before plating due to a different batch.