4004Cii

wints · Post by **wints** » Wed Oct 29, 2003 9:49 am

I,d also agree to all of the above. JH gets involved at all levels, including the replies to personal e mails that you just would not get anywhere else, and you,ve got to love that. I too look forward to seeing him post here again. As with anything that evokes passion, there are always going to be ups and downs, and that is healthy, but this forum and those who participate in it, are most definitely interested in advancing the Ric cause....

johnhall · Post by **johnhall** » Wed Oct 29, 2003 10:06 am

Nevertheless, I would rather have heard about the problem directly rather than read it here, especially since my email is widely known and posted here (unlike some folks). In this case it was a simple problem where everyone followed the rules too well- new/old stock-engineering change-ship from open container kind of thing, something that was very easy for me to fix quickly.

To be turned into an opportunity for other people to vent about perceived problems throughout time past is totally unfair to me and the company and therefore makes my participation basically a waste of my time.

philco · Post by **philco** » Wed Oct 29, 2003 4:56 pm

I'll relate this to a similar incident I had in 1976, and it did not involve Rickenbacker, but it shows how not solving a customer's problem causes the loss of a customer, and possibly a company. I was the recipient of a 1975 Fender P-bass in early 1976. It was mailordered sight unseen as I was in the military up in Alaska and the local dealer did not have what I wanted in stock at a decent price. I counted on the past reputation of Fender, which in my case was a mistake. My bass had an all-maple body and neck with blonde body and black pickguard. Quite handsome it was, from a distance. Closer inspection revealed very noticeable ripples in the wood where the body had been sculpted. Some of the pickguard screws were a bit off center. The pickups were not precisely centered in their routings and leaned a bit. The worst part was the S-curved neck that could not be straightened with the truss rod. In my opinion, the bass should have never left the factory, or been offered as a factory second at a greatly reduced price. The bass and case cost the equivalent of about $1200 in today's money, or $455 at the time.....and that was a discount price. Sending it back to Fender would have cost a lot and I would have been out the bass for a while. I played it for about a year, then gave up on learning bass as the necessary high action left me cold. I sold it for nearly what I gave for it, as prices for new basses were climbing. A lot of other people must have felt like me, since by 1982 Fender was in deep trouble and the company was sold to the management to sort out the serious quality and image issues. My problems were not hidden problems that any cognizant QC inspector would have had trouble spotting, so I assumed (and quite correctly, as history has proven) that quality at Fender was in the toilet, and I should just cut my losses and sell out. Fender has since had more QC problems pop up. Many people have noted that QC has really improved lately at Fender, but I really have no interest, as: 1) There are other American manufacturers, like RIC, G&L, Peavey, and Ernie Bal, who make better basses at a competitive price. 2) Fender still sells the same old basses with Strat style bodies, pickguards, single coil pickups, and 20-fret necks. Why can't they progress beyond the original Leo Fender basic designs? 3) OLP will sell you an imported Music Man Sting Ray or Spector NS style bass copy for $230 to $300 street price, and as an OLP owner I can vouch that my $230 MM2 is a better bass than my '75 P-bass ever was, or any current MIM Fender bass. It sounds better and is 2-3 pounds lighter to boot. 4) If I want the absolute very best, and am willing to pay the exorbitant bucks, I'll go home with something like a Status Graphite brand with Fender never even entering my consideration.

For those who live in the real world, want a high quality instrument, and have to watch closely what they spend for musical instruments, RIC is a very strong contender for their discretionary funds. Being the largest manufacturer of electric guitars that includes no Asian imports in their product catalog says a lot about the success of Rickenbacker. I THINK IT HAS MORE TO DO WITH GETTING THE GUITARS RIGHT THE FIRST TIME THAN LATER STRAIGHTENING OUT A BUNCH OF MESSES THAT SHOULD HAVE NEVER LEFT THE FACTORY. Many people, like in my previous situation, will simply never contact a problem plagued company and just walk away. The current market situation with import companies like OLP and Peavey coming on strong with basses and guitars that are REALLY good for under $500 will NOT allow ANY sizeable American manufacturer to rest on their laurels for long. RIC sells far too many guitars and basses in order to survive as a high priced boutique brand. RIC can only survive as a purely American manufactured guitar brand as long as the customer perceives 3 things: 1) Rickenbackers are unique and desireable among all the other brands, 2) they are high quality at an affordable price, and 3) they continue to evolve with the state of the art in manufacturing and esthetics.

With newer style basses like the Peavey Grind 4 NTB and OLP SB4 from foreign manufacturers coming on strong in the low end of the market, and with companies like Status Graphite pushing the frontiers of the instrument at the high end of the market, RIC has their work cut out for them. I HOPE RIC SUCCEEDS AND GIVES US SOMETHING CLOSE TO THE STATUS GRAPHITE BASS AT A PRICE THAT IS MUCH CLOSER TO A PEAVEY OR OLP. That is what I hope for as I await my first Rickenbacker bass with dual humbuckers, 24-fret neck, and graphite reinforcements to alleviate some of those darned vagaries that wood will always have, like warped and seasonally shifting necks.

jps · Post by **jps** » Wed Oct 29, 2003 5:20 pm

Over the years I have owned several Fenders, Alembics, Zons and Rickenbackers plus assorted other brands, and I have played most other high end basses. I recently got a new 4004Cii and I must say the quality is as good if not better overall than everything I have ever played or owned. Anything handmade will have it's own character, good or bad, but seeing the 4004Cii I have nothing but praise for John and his company. For a realistic price that musicians can really afford, Rickenbacker is showing what is really possible, and it is truly fabulous. I am sorry that problems have to be aired in public like this, but I guess that is the nature of our world as it it today. Perhaps the best thing to do would have been to privately take care of the matter and then when, mission accomplished, give an account of what happened in a positive manner. JH has a lot to do, with the wide range of products that must be manufactured from a fairly small company, so please let's all give him a round of applause for bringing us all these wonderful instruments and not harp on him like we do. Put yourselves in his shoes, here he is trying to maintain an American musical icon in the tradition of the past and the future at the same time, not an easy thing to do, right?

dave4004 · Post by **dave4004** » Wed Oct 29, 2003 7:54 pm

To be turned into an opportunity for other people to vent about perceived problems throughout time past is totally unfair to me and the company and therefore makes my participation basically a waste of my time.

Yes, it's unfair. No, your participation is not a waste of time. You have set the record straight many times. That's much better than letting wrong information or unfair criticism go unchallenged. And you have provided lots of other worthwhile information on everything from pickup construction to company history.

shamustwin · Post by **shamustwin** » Thu Oct 30, 2003 6:45 am

Unfair? I disagree. This is a forum by and for the customers of, and those whom admire, Rickenbacker products. Knowledgable members help each other out. I don't think the members should EXPECT Mr. Hall to comment,just appreciate it when he does. (this from the same guy who said...)

rictified · Post by **rictified** » Thu Oct 30, 2003 10:19 am

When my wife starts bitchin' I say: I'll see you later baby.
I'll take a walk, go to the internet, go play chicken with cars crossing the street here or something like that, but she's my wife and I have an OBLIGATION to come back (unlike most other things in my life including this forum). But I warn her: please stop, I have a breaking point just like everyone else, I can take a certain amount of it, but I did not marry you to get bitched at only, I want to enjoy my marriage, if I every time I see you, you ***** at me, sooner or later I just might take a walk and not come back.
AND I especially don't like it when she does it in front of other people, I tell her, if you are angry with me, tell me and we'll go outside and we'll talk ALONE.
She is learning, hopefully we too can learn in this forum.
I am not always the most discete person in the world and I have written things that I have regretted in this forum, but as I have gone along I have tried more and more to think of what kind of an effect what I say will have on people who read the stuff I write.
I enjoy everything I read here and respect everyone and everyones opinions in this forum, but I too don't like the bitching and have actually wondered before in this forum if it had chased anyone away, let's hope not.

cheyenne · Post by **cheyenne** » Thu Oct 30, 2003 11:05 am

Bottom line, we're all here because we love to collect, play, and share information about Rickenbackers. If not, this forum wouldnt be here at all. Good to here from you John.

gstuadams · Post by **gstuadams** » Fri Nov 07, 2003 11:20 am

Woo Hoo! My beautiful new transparent red CII arrived last night (talk about a watched pot never boiling -- it left UPS "destined for deliver" at 8:26 AM only a few miles from my house and didn't arrive until 6:30 in the evening - now I remember what it's like to be a kid on Xmas eve) My reaction was a mixture of excitement, delight and surprise. I love the neck and the action. I am also delighted with the sound. Whoever described it as "darker" (Andy?) had it right. I like the sound a lot but it is worth noting that there is nowhere near the dramatic effect when switching between pickups that I enjoy with my '78 4001 (high gain in bridge and re-issue toaster in the neck). It took me a double check to see which PU I was switching to. It is also noticeably louder than my 4001. I like everything about the feel, the neck, the lighter wieght, the rounded edge rather than binding where my forearm rests on the body.

The surprise comes with respect to the finish. It is absolutely beautiful but not what I expected. The pictures I have seen where of more figured maple and a much more translucent stain. The grain is subtle with just a touch of tiger stripe in one area that I can detecdt. There might be more but it is pretty thoroughly obscured by the stain. One must look hard to even see the walnut sandwiched between the maple wings in the side view. If you can barely see the difference between walnut and maple then it stands to reason that you wont be seeing much wood grain. The color tone is also a bit different than I expected. More of a brick red. If I had seen this bass in a store I would have assumed that it was one of the many variations of burgundy glo. The good news is that brick red looks great with the gold hardware and it is one of my favorite colors so I am, once again, delighted. Life is good.

jps · Post by **jps** » Fri Nov 07, 2003 1:42 pm

I had to do some tweaking of the truss rods to get my action nice and low and of course I put TI flats on her. I am not sure yet if I like the TIs on the 4004, I may put Chromes on. As much as I like the different sound I get compared to my 4005 WB or 4001 I might put Scatterwounds in to see how they compare with this wood combination.

The intensity of figure in the wood depends on the lighting you are seeing it with. Both my 4004Cii MG and my just new 660/12 MG have very nice flame in it but sometimes it is more pronounced than other times, the type of light can make it look incredible or barely there.

Congratulations Gordon, enjoy your new baby!

bottom4 · Post by **bottom4** » Fri Nov 07, 2003 3:03 pm

Congrats Gordon!!! You’ll fall in love with her – believe me.

Well it’s nearly a month since I’ve rec’d my girl - time goes by quickly when you’re having fun. Let me tell you, this is one hell of a bass! I think this is my fav – yes, even over my (18 year old) V63. The finish, the feel – love the neck 100%, the sound is great and, oh yeah, the smell - all around one great bass. Can’t put it down! These things will never last in the stores long enough for someone to try it out!

cheers

gstuadams · Post by **gstuadams** » Fri Nov 07, 2003 4:25 pm

Thanks Jeffrey and Andy. It was so good to come home from work today (first day back on the job after surgery -- why couldn't the bass come on the first day of convalescence?) and have my new toy to play with. I had ordered the bass through the (controversial) Ed Roman Guitars (before doing a search on them here on the forum). I let them do the setup -- there was at least one good review of them doing setup on a Ric guitar and they do sell a lot of Rics. They did a fine job. I asked for low action and it is setup lower than I can get on my 4001 without inducing fret buzz.

I really love this bass! I need to get to GC this weekend and get some strap locks and a decent strap. The nasty old strap I was using last night slipped off -- I didn't drop the bass but it was close and I about had a hear attack.

blueflamerick · Post by **blueflamerick** » Tue Dec 16, 2003 11:26 am

Just got a call from Ed Roman. My blue 4004 cII is in! Whoo-hoo!

rickenbrother · Post by **rickenbrother** » Tue Dec 16, 2003 11:46 am

Erik, be sure to post pics of that bass when get it.

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Tue Dec 16, 2003 1:11 pm

Mike Parks has a couple coming in ...