Guitar storage question
Moderator: jingle_jangle
Guitar storage question
I've got a few of my guitars in storage. The unit is not climate controlled, so my concern is possible moisture damage over a long period of time. Then I thought of putting those little silicate packs that come with new cameras in the guitar cases. Would this help prevent moisture inside the case? Flip side: Could it possibly damage the guitar by removing too much moisture?
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jingle_jangle
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I'd be worried by both this and heat.
In my section of the country (Northern California), these units are quite hot and dry in the summertime, and cold and damp in the winter.
In my section of the country (Northern California), these units are quite hot and dry in the summertime, and cold and damp in the winter.
“I say in speeches that a plausible mission of artists is to make people appreciate being alive at least a little bit. I am then asked if I know of any artists who pulled that off. I reply, 'The Beatles did.”
― Kurt Vonnegut
― Kurt Vonnegut
It is an engineering tradeoff, Mark. Silica gel is a powerful dessicant, and is easily capable of pulling a sealed airspace down to 12% or less, which is far too dry for a guitar to be safely stored. But you have to use a lot of it, and it has to be freshly activated by baking first to absorb the maximum amount of moisture, for it to do serious damage.
Using just the tiny packs supplied with cameras will have no real effect, unless you have on the order of a hundred or more of them. The airspace is just too large. And when you remove the tiny pak and leave it exposed to ambient air for even a few hours, it draws up moisture.
The trick is to buy enough to act as a "storage battery" for moisture appropriate to the size of the airspace you are protecting, then calibrate the silica gel to the right level of humidity, then seal completely the case from the intrusion of outside air. Then, the silica gel will act as a humidity regulator to protect your guitar. I have used the below procedure to store and ship fine acoustic guitars and violins, cellos, and basses with no problems at all - the RH was identical when it arrived to when it left.
If you get a large quantity, say the inexpensive canisters of silica gel drying powder in craft shops that people use to dry flowers, and then leave the container (with the lid off) exposed to ambient air at the right temperature (around 75 F) and the right relative humidity (about 40% is good) for long enough, the silica gel stabilizes at a certain saturation point. Make sure the guitars and case are also stabilized at this temperature and humidity level too, to match. Place a triple-layer of three cotton bags, one inside each other, made of really good new bedsheet material. That 400-count percale stuff they sell in the Sam's Club or BJ's, etc, in a "full" size can be had for $30 or less and it will make lots of bags. For the average guitar case, fill it with at least 2 cups, no more than 4 cups, of the pre-conditioned silica gel powder. Make sure the bags are tied tightly and completely sealed so that no powder gets out, it gets messy if it does. Make sure also that the bag is put in the accessory pocket of the guitar case or somewhere else so that the bag does not directly touch the surface of the guitar.
Put it in the case, and seal the case against the entry of air. This means taping the edges with a non-damaging adhesive tape and sealing the case in several airtight plastic bags. Then stick the whole thing into a good smooth cardboard box to prevent a hole developing in the bag-seal due to abrasion or puncture.
As the temperature increases and decreases in the storage facility, and as the humidity rises and falls, your guitar will stay very near the original relative humidity that the silica gel was "calibrated" at, or conditioned to at the time, because the conditioned silica gel, in combination with a sealed air space, acts as a storage battery, gradually releasing and then reabsorbing moisture, to keep the RH stable.
A note of caution: do NOT try this at all if you cannot guarantee that zero outside air can penetrate into the airspace within the case from outside. Otherwise, the silica gel will start drawing additional moisture from the outside air that leaks in, and will start to saturate. Then, the average RH inside the case will go up and stay up at the new conditioning point, or if it is in a dry environment it will go down and stay down at a new conditioning point..
Using just the tiny packs supplied with cameras will have no real effect, unless you have on the order of a hundred or more of them. The airspace is just too large. And when you remove the tiny pak and leave it exposed to ambient air for even a few hours, it draws up moisture.
The trick is to buy enough to act as a "storage battery" for moisture appropriate to the size of the airspace you are protecting, then calibrate the silica gel to the right level of humidity, then seal completely the case from the intrusion of outside air. Then, the silica gel will act as a humidity regulator to protect your guitar. I have used the below procedure to store and ship fine acoustic guitars and violins, cellos, and basses with no problems at all - the RH was identical when it arrived to when it left.
If you get a large quantity, say the inexpensive canisters of silica gel drying powder in craft shops that people use to dry flowers, and then leave the container (with the lid off) exposed to ambient air at the right temperature (around 75 F) and the right relative humidity (about 40% is good) for long enough, the silica gel stabilizes at a certain saturation point. Make sure the guitars and case are also stabilized at this temperature and humidity level too, to match. Place a triple-layer of three cotton bags, one inside each other, made of really good new bedsheet material. That 400-count percale stuff they sell in the Sam's Club or BJ's, etc, in a "full" size can be had for $30 or less and it will make lots of bags. For the average guitar case, fill it with at least 2 cups, no more than 4 cups, of the pre-conditioned silica gel powder. Make sure the bags are tied tightly and completely sealed so that no powder gets out, it gets messy if it does. Make sure also that the bag is put in the accessory pocket of the guitar case or somewhere else so that the bag does not directly touch the surface of the guitar.
Put it in the case, and seal the case against the entry of air. This means taping the edges with a non-damaging adhesive tape and sealing the case in several airtight plastic bags. Then stick the whole thing into a good smooth cardboard box to prevent a hole developing in the bag-seal due to abrasion or puncture.
As the temperature increases and decreases in the storage facility, and as the humidity rises and falls, your guitar will stay very near the original relative humidity that the silica gel was "calibrated" at, or conditioned to at the time, because the conditioned silica gel, in combination with a sealed air space, acts as a storage battery, gradually releasing and then reabsorbing moisture, to keep the RH stable.
A note of caution: do NOT try this at all if you cannot guarantee that zero outside air can penetrate into the airspace within the case from outside. Otherwise, the silica gel will start drawing additional moisture from the outside air that leaks in, and will start to saturate. Then, the average RH inside the case will go up and stay up at the new conditioning point, or if it is in a dry environment it will go down and stay down at a new conditioning point..
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you, and sit in with the band whenever you can, to keep your chops up!
Mark,
I used these sealed units,
http://cgi.ebay.com/Silica-Gel-Dehumidifier-450-Gram_W0QQitemZ250143720199QQihZ015QQcategoryZ52509QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
in my old beach apartment. It was very humid, and they used to keep the humididty @ 60%. This size fits perfectly in one corner of the case.
I used these sealed units,
http://cgi.ebay.com/Silica-Gel-Dehumidifier-450-Gram_W0QQitemZ250143720199QQihZ015QQcategoryZ52509QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
in my old beach apartment. It was very humid, and they used to keep the humididty @ 60%. This size fits perfectly in one corner of the case.
Cool - this box of stuff on sale on eBay is exactly the same stuff you get if you do what I do buying it at a plain old non-eBay store. Same silica gel powder exactly. About the same amount too. Only, buying it from eBay costs over ten times as much money as buying it in bulk from the crafts shop. 
The bright side is you don't have to bag it yourself 
Either way, what counts is the technique of how you use it....
The bright side is you don't have to bag it yourself Either way, what counts is the technique of how you use it....
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you, and sit in with the band whenever you can, to keep your chops up!
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8mileshigh
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If you follow my method, you set the humidity level where you want it and it stays there. Optimum is 40% to 45% RH, 35% is OK, less is bad and too much is bad.
Too much humidity rusts the hardware and grows mildew and mold in the case
Too little structurally weakens or cracks the wood
Too much humidity rusts the hardware and grows mildew and mold in the case
Too little structurally weakens or cracks the wood
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you, and sit in with the band whenever you can, to keep your chops up!
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headbanger
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Mark, keep in mind that one of your guitars has lived in a very dry environment all it's life. Down here we've never heard of humidifiers. Finish checking and fret popping are also never seen. I have wondered if a sudden and extended change to a different environment might not have been good for it.
cheers
cheers
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beatlefreak
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A climate controlled room will be ideal; I just can't afford one right now. I think the silicate solution will be alright with careful monitoring. And given the slight S-curve in the neck of my "dry guitar," I'm not too worried about that one since I plan on having the neck worked on eventually. Once it's fixed up, then I'll keep closer tabs on it. But in the interim, I think this wetter climate will be good exposure for it to acclimate and adjust naturally before being worked on.
Thanks for all the info, guys.
Thanks for all the info, guys.
This is just my .02c and my experience AND has a few problematic parts to it.
I recently bought a guitar from a guy in Las Vegas, and had it shipped here to Tasmania, Australia - a fender '52 reissue telecaster. The previous owner had a 8X10" thick dessicant bag in the case and in the 10 days it took to get here, the dessicant had removed so much moisure from the guitar (NOT the environment) that the fret ends were proud of the fingerboard. Not massively so - maybe .10 to .25mm, but enough to be felt and enough to be bl__dy annoying. I ended up sticking the guitar in the coldest room in the house for a month, and it's back to normal now - and the neck lacquer has checked some, but looks great as it is.
So the moral to the story is: Don't buy a telecaster...er..I mean, don't go overboard with the dessicant
I recently bought a guitar from a guy in Las Vegas, and had it shipped here to Tasmania, Australia - a fender '52 reissue telecaster. The previous owner had a 8X10" thick dessicant bag in the case and in the 10 days it took to get here, the dessicant had removed so much moisure from the guitar (NOT the environment) that the fret ends were proud of the fingerboard. Not massively so - maybe .10 to .25mm, but enough to be felt and enough to be bl__dy annoying. I ended up sticking the guitar in the coldest room in the house for a month, and it's back to normal now - and the neck lacquer has checked some, but looks great as it is.
So the moral to the story is: Don't buy a telecaster...er..I mean, don't go overboard with the dessicant
Hi Andrew!! Thanks for your email today, as well
Sorry this happened, and if that guy who shipped the guitar to you had first "calibrated" the equilibrium point of that dessicant bag before putting it into the case, it would have maintained a perfect level of humidity for the guitar. Instead, the guy put it in with waaayyy too low an equilibrium point, and it dropped the humidity level to a dangerously-damaging level.
Silica gel, properly calibrated, can be a lifesaving blessing for a stored or in-transit guitar. Improperly calibrated, it will damage a guitar. You can't just "stick a box from eBay" into the case and have it always work out right.
It's all in how you use it, like most everything else in life
Sorry this happened, and if that guy who shipped the guitar to you had first "calibrated" the equilibrium point of that dessicant bag before putting it into the case, it would have maintained a perfect level of humidity for the guitar. Instead, the guy put it in with waaayyy too low an equilibrium point, and it dropped the humidity level to a dangerously-damaging level.
Silica gel, properly calibrated, can be a lifesaving blessing for a stored or in-transit guitar. Improperly calibrated, it will damage a guitar.
You can't just "stick a box from eBay" into the case and have it always work out right. It's all in how you use it, like most everything else in life
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you, and sit in with the band whenever you can, to keep your chops up!
Cheers Elys - I'd pretty much concluded the same. The dessicant bag looked like it came from the bag that a matress from China might need, not a guitar from Vegas!
Maybe an uncalibrated equilibrium point sealed with massive dessicant container is the cornerstone of the relic process? The checking on the neck looks a lot like a '60 strat I had in my hands recently.
The guitar is killer, BTW, so I'm in a "no <serious> harm, no <serious> foul" situation.
I knew or more accurately, thought the fret-ends would come back into shape eventually in the higher humidity of the colder room (its a wettish winter here at the moment, and my 1938 art deco house has its drafts, thus moisture). It did
Maybe an uncalibrated equilibrium point sealed with massive dessicant container is the cornerstone of the relic process?
The checking on the neck looks a lot like a '60 strat I had in my hands recently. The guitar is killer, BTW, so I'm in a "no <serious> harm, no <serious> foul" situation.
I knew or more accurately, thought the fret-ends would come back into shape eventually in the higher humidity of the colder room (its a wettish winter here at the moment, and my 1938 art deco house has its drafts, thus moisture). It did