Amps!

gray · Post by **gray** » Mon Aug 06, 2007 2:35 am

I'm seriously considering the Marshall VBA400, now. I've heard Ricks sound good through these. True, I assume? 810, 412 or two 412s?

And one more thing I never did figure out. The VBA400 will take a 2 ohm load. Does that mean I need a 2 ohm load to get the full wattage out of it? Because I intend to wring every watt out of whatever amp I get, and I don't know that much about tube amps.
Thanks!

xsubs · Post by **xsubs** » Mon Aug 06, 2007 2:45 am

Tube amps output the same power, regardless of load impedance.
I played through the VBA... it's a nice amp. Anyone near you have one?

gray · Post by **gray** » Mon Aug 06, 2007 10:12 am

Nope, I'd be the first, apparently.
That's what I thought about tube amps, but I don't have much experience in owning one. The one I did have, I went through so much trouble find a cab for it (never did) that I just gave up and sold it without ever really figuring it out, beyond just getting a general idea of it.
I'm kind of a simple guy when it comes to amps, I don't want to have to fiddle with it forever because I start to get lost. So thanks for the info.
I'd like to find one to play through it, but then again, I have some experience with Marshall guitar amps, and I know of a few Rick players who've used Marshall bass amps, so I might just go ahead and get it regardless. 400 all tube watts through an 810 can't be all wrong, I suppose.

rictified · Post by **rictified** » Mon Aug 06, 2007 6:46 pm

"Tube amps output the same power, regardless of load impedance."

That's not really accurate, they will put out less power and sound muddy if you play them at an impedance too high for the amp. If it is a tube amp it will probably have a switch on the back for certain impedances, they will put out the same power at all matched impedances. For example an SVT will put out 300 watts RMS@ either 2 or 4 ohms, if you try to run it at 8 or higher it will lose power and sound muddy as will all tube amps run at higher than rated impedances. 8 x 10 cabs are equivalent to almost 4 15" speakers in cone area and are much quicker responding which means that they are tighter. A 4 x 10 cabs is almost equivalent to a double 15 cab.

gray · Post by **gray** » Mon Aug 06, 2007 7:09 pm

Interesting, thanks for that information. Makes sense.
Right now I am looking at the Fender Bassman 300 Pro and the Carvin SRB 810 package (mercurial, aren't I?).
The Carvin is tempting because of what you get for the price, but, what exactly DO you get? Is it going to hold up over time? How will it sound with my Ricks?
The Fender looks really good, too, I'm just worried it might not be loud enough. I've read reviews of it that say it goes really well with Rick basses, and that's happy information.
Still not opposed to the Marshall, but the Fender, being descended from Sunns, seems like it might be more worth it.
I wish I knew what to do. Ach.
Another thing is that I need to have whatever rig I get in my possession before Sept. 15. Plus, on Sept. 22, my band is playing the main stage at Alpine Valley in East Troy, WI. We're headlining the show, and I'll be, um, gosh-darned... if I'm going to be playing there with one of the sub-par pieces of equipment I've got today.

xsubs · Post by **xsubs** » Tue Aug 07, 2007 2:34 am

Rictified
What I wrote was a direct answer to a question from Robert. I believe, taken in its context, that he understood my answer... You are correct though; I could have been more explicit!
Operating an amp within the manufacturers standard operating parameters, is a given. The switch on the back is there for a purpose, and the manual is there to use as a guide.
I can't imagine why anyone would connect up a mismatching load... purposely?
Why connect an 8 ohm load to a system that only supports either 2 or 4?

johnallg · Post by **johnallg** » Tue Aug 07, 2007 10:19 am

"Why connect an 8 ohm load to a system that only supports either 2 or 4?"

You'd be surprised at all the players this is all voodoo to! Hardly any musicians have an electrical background. What I don't understand, is if their livelihood depends on their equipment and its proper and optimized use, why not take the time to learn it??? This includes instrument setup. IMHO.

rictified · Post by **rictified** » Tue Aug 07, 2007 2:44 pm

Sean, I've seen it done over and over again. Series and parallel wiring differences have a lot to do with people making mistakes, also many people either don't care or don't care, haha!

gray · Post by **gray** » Tue Aug 07, 2007 6:15 pm

Well, just tonight I went to Guitar Center and tried out a new, fancy Markbass rig - TA 501 w/ a ported 610 + tweeter - and loved it. Loud, clear, lightweight and compact; it just made so much sense. I bought it and took it home.

Then I got home and started looking for the manual online, as they claimed it didn't come with one. I had noticed in the store that the cabinet was 6 ohms. I asked them why that was and what effect this would have. They told me that it would have no effect, because the head and the cabinet were made to go together. Knowing nothing about Markbass and having never heard of a 6 ohm cabinet in any other circumstance, I foolishly took their word for it. Now I find out that, of course (DUH) the head is 4 ohms and puts out 500 watts at that rating, while it puts out 300 at 8 ohms. So, am I only getting... 400 watts? How the heck does this work? I feel seriously snaked, and this was not a cheap setup, at least not for me. For me, this was the most serious musical purchase I've made so far. This was supposed to be THE amp for me.
They also, I realized afterward, charged me for one of their extended warranty things that I never asked for. It just magically appeared on the receipt.
Is this just typical Guitar Center BS? Should I take it back tomorrow night (Wednesday night)? I have practice on Thursday and can't miss it.

I am very, very irritated right now, to say the least, and some Guitar Center employee is going to get an earful tomorrow, I think.
Maybe I should just say to h*ll with it and buy the Vietnamese SVT Classic and the 810 cab. I don't know. I'm angry. Please, someone tell me if I'm overreacting.

johnallg · Post by **johnallg** » Tue Aug 07, 2007 7:00 pm

Bob, you are not alone in your GC experience. I cannot address MB's reasons to offer a 6 ohm cab, but yes, you are somewhere between 300 and 500 watts. As for the salesperson charging you for the extended warranty, that was very unscrupulous. One thing you have to remember going to GC, you probably know more about the product than they do. Usually. Once in a while you run into someone who is pretty sharp, usually a manager.

rictified · Post by **rictified** » Tue Aug 07, 2007 7:23 pm

Bring it back, they screwed you. Go online and buy yourself a nice used SVT and 8 x 10 cab.

markbass99 · Post by **markbass99** » Wed Aug 08, 2007 1:27 am

Robert, you have to consider that when you are using a cab with a non standard number of speakers that you are not always going to get the peak output numbers due to the combining of the individual speaker ohms. The power output is not the only factor in the loudness of your rig. For example a 410 running at 4ohm/500 watts is not going to be louder than a 610 running at 6ohm/400 watts due to the increased speaker cone area in the larger cab.

I might be wrong, but at the time I bought my Markbass GC was advertising a 30 day trial with a two year free warranty. I would take advantage of that trial and see how the rig works out in a gig setting. If they charged you for the warranty you need to get that money back. Good Luck with the rig, there's a lot of happy Markbass users out there.

gray · Post by **gray** » Wed Aug 08, 2007 2:09 am

Mark- I did consider that about the cab and in fact asked them about it. The issue for me is that I felt, for a while, like they took advantage of the fact that I was unfamiliar with Markbass. In fact, every 610 I've seen (all of them have been new, mind you) have crossovers to keep them at 4 ohms. It seems highly unusual to keep them at 6, but I'm sure there's a reason.
Don't get me wrong, it is much brighter and clearer than the SVT they had there, and at least as loud- probably louder. I do like the rig, it's not a matter of not liking it. And yes, there is a 30 day trial and all that, so I may take it to practice and see how it fares. It's just a shame that they only had three Markbass rigs there. I see online that they have a much larger selection, including a tube head and an 810.
Thanks for the advice, though. I am going to see how it fares; it's not like I bought it because I DIDN'T like it.

xsubs · Post by **xsubs** » Wed Aug 08, 2007 3:05 am

"One thing you have to remember going to GC, you probably know more about the product than they do."

I'm with John on this one... most of these salesman are clueless!

If you like the MB rig, Robert, keep it! Your ears alone should be the judge. GC will take ANYTHING back, so play it some more and then make your decision. As for getting overcharged, you shouldn't worry. Go down and have a manager take it off your invoice.

Enjoy your new rig... congrats!

xsubs · Post by **xsubs** » Wed Aug 08, 2007 3:09 am

BTW... the cabinets real impedance is 5.33 ohms!