Squire's other basses

[vincent_gallo]

Thanks for the post Mark. I may be a bit obsessive. It is very easy for folks to judge the collector. As if by being a collector a person is preventing musicians from having access to great instruments or that collectors are all rich. Another way to see it may be to remember that there are more than enough musical instruments to go around. Quality instruments are more plentiful and available than they have ever been in history. The sacrifice musicians had to make to own a quality instrument was far more in the 30’s, 40’s, 50’s, 60’s and 70’s than it is today. Chris Squire had to pay off his bass over a long period of time. The great musicians need barely a block of wood with nails holding strings on to sound good. The truth is that anyone who was really willing to make a big commitment to find and purchase a vintage Rickenbacker bass could do it. The prices are not that far fetched. I put most of my collection together when I was earning well below the average Joe. Most of us here are not that young so we all had a chance to own as many vintage Rickenbackers as we wanted when they were much cheaper. It may be too easy for many to take a more negative view and feel the collectors are ruining things. I feel differently about those who collect. It is the collectors of fine instruments that have given those fine instruments the context and understanding they deserve. If Jimmy Page were starting out today he would not need a 59 burst. He would do his thing on whatever was around. Having a 59 burst passed around the junk circles or being modified would be a shame and would reflect an unconscious public. I am glad things are different.

The Rickenbacker factory is still in business and making basses that are very nice and playable. No musician needs to have a 60’s bass to play and sound great. I think for a teenager today to buy a new Rickenbacker it is less far fetched than it was when I somehow did it in the early seventies.

Dane, the bass came to me today and came like it is. Most surely the tailpiece was re-chromed but the surround I think is right as looking close and underneath suggest original chrome. I think it is the shoes that are more suspect to re-chrome though the bobbin is perfect.

Bob and John, thanks for the kind words.

i will try again to resize the pic's

[wayang]

Hi, Vince...long time no speak. Hope you are well, brother...

I want to be careful in expressing my opinion about this, and I certainly don't want to make you angry over what is basically a difference of opinion. I do respect the collectors for doing their part in preserving these fine instruments...if we think they're valuable now, what might they be like in another hundred years?

There just comes a point, to the thinking of some of us players, where it seems a little 'over the top' to own this many iterations of any given instrument. I mean, damn, bro'...how many do you really need to play whatever it is you can play on them?

I'm being serious here, and not trying to put you on the spot...so please, don't bark at me in all caps. I (and others out there who might think like me) am just wondering what the point is in owning that many basses (or what have you).

I'm ready to be compelled by your answer...

And not to disagree with you for it's own sake (I'm walking on eggs here as it is), I respectfully dispute your assertion that it's easier for a teenager to own a Rick than it was when we were kids...I think it's just as tough today, and I'm okay with that...hey, kidz; want a Rick? Then work your *ss off for it like we did.

Anyway, you might think I'm fibbing, but I'm not, when I say: it's good to have you back...your knowledge of Rick basses is impressive and of great value here...

[vincent_gallo]

Dane your comments are fair and thoughtful and I in no way feel offended or put off. I have been posting tonight from my dressing room on set since there was a few long delays with production tonight. I arrived at work this morning at 9:15 AM and it is 2:48 AM and I get to finally go home now. Sometime tomorrow I will reflect on your thoughts and try to ad insight to my view of things.

[seyesbass]

Having owned three RMs(Wints Maurice Gibb bass,DA24 and John Lodges RM) over the years I can say that there is a legitimate reason for musicians to seek these guitars out.
Before I ever owned a 60s Rick I tried a second hand one in a shop and thought that all Rick basses would be the same.
The whole feel and sound differed so much from the 1974 production models that I tried out when I was finally able to get a quality bass on Hire Purchase,that I decided to wait for a 60s bass to turn up rather than buy the Jetglo bass I had seen in Barratts Manchester.
10CC bought the Jetglo 4001 and I bought a white Jazz bass with maple neck (possibly the heaviest bass I have ever owned)both basses were over £300 and I was only earning £28 per week.
Three years went by before I could afford a 1963 4001 which I picked up (again on HP) for £275 from HonkyTonk Music in Essex.
Dont forget theres the limited availability of a bass that was only made for a short time in small numbers so just to see one for sale is a rare event.
A shop in London recently had a 60s 4001s in non-original condition parts missing painted black etc..for £3500!
This is what we are up against if we want to get a 60s RM to gig rather than collect.
Gibson (ok they are a larger company)recognised this problem with the 58 Les Paul and now they have Custom Shop versions and even big name players use these on stage rather than the over precious originals.
A few of us have tried to persuade Rickenbacker to do a Custom Shop but its not likeley to happen.
I dont have a problem with collectors like Vince because they are as obsessive as the next Rick fan AND we know the guitars are in good hands.
There was talk in the 80s of investment portfolios containing rare guitars and its THAT kind of collecting thats ruined the availability of good vintage guitars for gigging musos.
One last thing....dont forget that it is a market and it can fluctuate wildly.Sometime in the near future we may see vintage guitars drop rapidly in price because the next generations simply arent interested in the things the older generation were into.
Its happened in the antiques business many times.
For that reason I intend to live another 51 years just to get my hands on that elusive mint RM1999!
CHEAP!
Roll on 2058.

[cheyenne]

Vincent, since you seem to have the largest collection of vintage Rickenbackers I've heard of, and especially praise '60's ere Ricks, I was wondering if you have had a chance to pick up or try a new "C" series 4001. And if so,,what were your thoughts?

Im so curious to know if its actually the vintage bass itself that feels and sounds so much better, or if its just simply the natural "aging" process of an instrument being some odd 40 years old?

Which, (I'll try to tie this all together here),,,what I'm trying to say is,, will a V63 or a C64 4001 sound and play like a RM 40 years from now?

Forgive me in advance if this sounds silly, but I've never played anything older than a '72.

[8mileshigh]

I don't think I'm going to last as long as you Pete

I share some of the sentiments here. I'm glad I got some of my rare Rics at an early age. They were cheap by today's standards, but still bloody expensive at the time - so what's really changed?

In an uncertain world, one thing that hasn't changed for the last 25 years is the continual rise in the prices of used Rics. And it's difficult to disassociate the investment potential with the love of the instruments themselves. Perhaps this is the best possible scenario? I have no other investments, just Rics and I'm comfortable with that risk. I get an immense amount of pleasure from the instruments, as well and the people I have met though collecting.

Certainly the forum has helped in a significant way with the increase in prices. And that can be seen as a good or bad thing, I guess. We've come to know other collectors and I'm sure at times we've all pushed things a little too high on Ebay, when chasing our own "holy Grails".

Bottom line for me is I love to look at, read about, talk about AND PLAY Rickenbacker guitars and basses. Rest assured they are cherished. One day I'll sell I'm sure. Nursing homes don't pay for themselves ..........and when I do - they will be in the same shape or better than when I adopted them.

[markbass99]

Vince, to post pictures on this forum you need to crop them to 500 x 500 pixels and compress them to below 36k, I use a program called jpeg wizard but there are others out there. The pics below were both done with jeg wizard and show two examples of my 73 4001 collection(Feb,May). I decided to be a collector four years ago and decided that I wanted to collect an example from each of the first six months of 1973 to showcase the transition period. I'm trying not to duplicate colors so a couple refins are planned with Paul and Dale and this works out good since some of my finds are in dire need. I just recently acquired Marc Seligman's Jan 73 and will refin and replace the non-standard hardware. I have the grovers but need a 3 hole split tailpiece, anybody want to help a brother out?

[elysrand]

In an effort to get this thread back to discussing Chris Squire's OTHER BASSES, we should not be talking about his first RM1999, but instead about Chris Squire's other Rickenbackers and other brands. We know he owns a lot of basses, and has owned even more and sold them over the years.

Like, whatever happened to his 1970 21-fretter 4001 MG, of Yes Album fame, or any other Seventies 4-string Ricks? Does he still use that 21-fretter bass, or did he sell it?

[markbass99]

I would be very interested in knowing if Chris had any Deluxe model ricks and how he felt about things like checkered binding and sparkle inlays. The RM's are kind of boring(gasp!)....with the dot necks and naked edges and any color you want as long as it's fireglo......

[gearhed289]

Pretty AMAZING reading here! For years, I've been most infatuated with (besides the RM1999) Squire's 8 string Ric and the Thunderbird. And now I find out BOTH are owned by the same guy. And this guy (Vince of course) truly loves and respects these instruments. I just think that's great. I hope to be lucky enough to see these up close and personal some day. (Closest I've got to the 'bird was 16th row on the Drama tour).

[wayang]

Vince...just wanted to say that I re-read this sentence from your earlier post:

"When i get my new house finished in march 2008 anyone who wants to visit LA and see and play anything from the collection is welcome anytime."

I have to say, that is amazingly decent of you...and makes you as rare (as collectors go) as some of your basses.

Should I bring beer?

[bassduke49]

Vince, I hope you can appear at the SoCalCon coming up in two weeks. I hope also, that you and I can talk about the old basses. I'm sure you have much knowledge to contribute to the bass book.

[iamthebassman]

Hmm..I just came to this thread, looking for some info on Squire's old Tele Bass but the thread seems to have gone off course.

[lyle_from_minneapolis]

Thread Drift happens.

[lyle_from_minneapolis]

And sometimes unhappens.

This link http://www.vintagebass.com/thedudepit/archive/index.php?t-17244.html
discusses the Telecaster bass... and drifts into a pretty interesting description of Chris's feelings about his RM1999 and the different sound it produced after all the wallpaper flowers were shaved off. I never know if such posts are entirely credible, but it seemed to be informed and made for a good read.

And they talk about other basses, and how the triple-neck was tuned.