Dr. Bob...your post has made more sense to me than any other I've read in this thread, including (several of) my own...I'm coming to realize that the real reson I don't like Barry Bonds is his misanthropic, admittedly 'media hyped' persona, and the truth is I don't really know how much (if any) of that picture is accurate. I've been thinking the past few days about what it takes to see a little white sphere coming at you at 90+ mph, and putting a stout piece of wood right in it's path. I think all of our arguments come out of some completely sincere, little boy, "Lord Of The Flies" moments out of our own childhood...it's not easy to hit a homer, that's for sure, and Barry is an extremely talented human being...drugs or no drugs.
I just think it's even harder to act like a decent human being...and if you can keep your humanity intact, no matter what you might be doing that's above-or-below-board, than all the power in the world to ya...
Bein' a jerk is tough for a lot of us humans to sit still for, and it really kills us when it's coming from someone who's rolling in money and doing something they (supposedly) love.
Radical opinion on Barry Bonds,the new HR King
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shamustwin
- Senior Member
- Posts: 5287
- Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2003 5:00 am
I've got issues with jerks, wealthy or not. But on the subject of wealth...to me, it's like 'authority'. I've frequently been accused throughout my life of not respecting authority, which just isn't true. I could name plenty of examples of authority I respect, but many more examples of illegitimate, wantonly oppressive authority for which I have nothing but contempt...the same goes for 'wealth'.
I didn't get where I am today by being on time...
Anyone who cheats, and steroids are cheating and much worse than any other drug ever used in the history of sports, is a bum and deserves to be thrown out of the sport and I agree MLB has done nothing to help, all they want is 25 home runs per game to excite the fans. Someone above wrote how years ago most games were 2-1 etc. They were right, that was pre-steroids with their artificially pumped up bodies, ever see anyone after they've come off the stuff? They look like sickly puppets. Bonds is a bum and has soiled Aarons record and all of baseball. Y punto.
Just to get it straight --
Here is a quote from the Sabermetric Research site.
"And the reality is, there hasn't been much of a long term change in offense - if you go back to 1961 and 1962, the 2 years before baseball changed the rules to help pitching, there were 9 runs scored per game. In 2005, there were 9.2 runs per game. There have been + changes of .4 or more since 1960 in 1969 (when they lowered the mound), 1973 (intro of dh), 1977, 1987 , and 1997. There have been - changes of .4 or more since 1960 in 1963 (mound raised, zone enlarged), 1968, 1971, 1978, and 1988. (nice new year-to-year table in this year's ESPN Baseball Encyclopedia)"
So the myth of games being 2-1 in the "good old days" is false. That just isn't true.
As far as Bonds goes, he either is still on steroids or he never was because he certainly doesn't look like a sickly puppet to me.
Here is a quote from the Sabermetric Research site.
"And the reality is, there hasn't been much of a long term change in offense - if you go back to 1961 and 1962, the 2 years before baseball changed the rules to help pitching, there were 9 runs scored per game. In 2005, there were 9.2 runs per game. There have been + changes of .4 or more since 1960 in 1969 (when they lowered the mound), 1973 (intro of dh), 1977, 1987 , and 1997. There have been - changes of .4 or more since 1960 in 1963 (mound raised, zone enlarged), 1968, 1971, 1978, and 1988. (nice new year-to-year table in this year's ESPN Baseball Encyclopedia)"
So the myth of games being 2-1 in the "good old days" is false. That just isn't true.
As far as Bonds goes, he either is still on steroids or he never was because he certainly doesn't look like a sickly puppet to me.
The world is made of stories not atoms and every guitar has a story.
I had a friend years ago who used to lift weights and go on and off the stuff, he would lose 30-40 lbs. in one month and look like a skinny kid just like Jason Giambi (sp?) did a few years ago when he cleaned up for a while, and this guy looked like Mr. America when he was on it and lifting. The change is dramatic, we all knew when he was off the stuff. If Bonds is on it and by all accounts he is that I've read, then he is still on it now.
Well, if he is still on steroids then why isn't he hitting home runs at the same pace he did a few years ago?
So he's either still on steroids and they are not helping him hit home runs anymore (which would run counter to the argument that taking steroids results in hitting home runs) or he is off of steroids and somehow has miraculously avoided becoming a skinny puppet.
There could be another explanation. Maybe it takes more than just steroids to be a great home run hitter, which is exactly my point.
So he's either still on steroids and they are not helping him hit home runs anymore (which would run counter to the argument that taking steroids results in hitting home runs) or he is off of steroids and somehow has miraculously avoided becoming a skinny puppet.
There could be another explanation. Maybe it takes more than just steroids to be a great home run hitter, which is exactly my point.
The world is made of stories not atoms and every guitar has a story.
I don't know his history, all I know is that after he was exposed he was looking bedraggled for a while. Maybe he is pumped up naturally, I don't know and really don't care about him. Just the fact that baseball is riddled with steroids as are many other sports is one of many reasons I don't watch any sport anymore. I don't think steroids are the whole story with these guys anyway, they maybe just feel they need an edge and would be good anyway which is what I suspect with the vast majority of them. But the point remains they are cheating and have an unfair edge no matter how big or little it is. His record will remain forever mired in controversy. Hopefully someone in baseball will come in and put in stringent random testing and some teeth in the anti-doping rules. Major league sports especially baseball are for the most part a joke and a farce nowadays IMHO.
Ahhhhh, how we long for the good old days when the grass was greener and baseball games were all 2-1. When the drugs of choice were cocaine and speed, more "moral" and less controversial drugs than the steroids of today. Players back in the good old days were more ethical cheaters. They did it the right way, they cheated without steroids.
We tend to remember the past as better, cleaner, more fair -- we idealize the past. The fact is that professional sports (maybe all sports) have always been about gaining an advantage. Baseball has always been a game of cheating. We steal signs by peering in from the centerfield scoreboard at Wrigley, we doctor baseballs with nail files and sand paper, we put pine tar farther up the bat than is legally allowed. Slow teams water the infield before a game and teams with good bunters angle the foul lines so that balls stay fair. We throw spit balls and yell at people trying to catch a pop up as we run behind them (A-Rod). All of this is good cheating. Life was so much better, simpler, when there was only good cheating.
My final say on Barry -- I think Barry Bonds may have made some bad choices in his life. I don't know this for a fact. But I also think that Barry Bonds is one great ballplayer. Being a great player and making bad choices are not mutually exclusive, both can exist in the same time and place.
We tend to remember the past as better, cleaner, more fair -- we idealize the past. The fact is that professional sports (maybe all sports) have always been about gaining an advantage. Baseball has always been a game of cheating. We steal signs by peering in from the centerfield scoreboard at Wrigley, we doctor baseballs with nail files and sand paper, we put pine tar farther up the bat than is legally allowed. Slow teams water the infield before a game and teams with good bunters angle the foul lines so that balls stay fair. We throw spit balls and yell at people trying to catch a pop up as we run behind them (A-Rod). All of this is good cheating. Life was so much better, simpler, when there was only good cheating.
My final say on Barry -- I think Barry Bonds may have made some bad choices in his life. I don't know this for a fact. But I also think that Barry Bonds is one great ballplayer. Being a great player and making bad choices are not mutually exclusive, both can exist in the same time and place.
The world is made of stories not atoms and every guitar has a story.
All this talk of doping and not one mention of Doc Ellis pitching a "no-no" while tripping his brains out. Certainly not what could be called "performance enhancing" but pretty remarkable just the same.
On topic, the fact is is that players have always been looking for something that gives them an edge over the competition; be it a nail file, pine tar, cork, creatine or what have you. MLB has managed to look the other way until someone made a complaint. I just recently read an article in which an independent firm examined the make up of baseballs from 1915 to present. There's a huge difference in the composition today than what was used in '76. In 1977, the number of home runs increased two fold after the introduction of the "modern" ball and the ball's composition has changed three times since Big Mac and Sosa had their personal Home Run Derby in '98. MLB gave the green light to Rawlings - the lone supplier of balls - to change the make up. Seems to me that there's plenty of blame to go around and not just with the players.
Now, when a guy like Brady Anderson can jack 50 long balls in a season when he'd never hit more than 21 in any previous year, that's cause for suspicion in my book. I'm certainly no fan of Barry Bonds in any way, but around his 5th season with Pittsburgh he seemed to have found his stroke and was fairly consistant in his home run production; from 1990 to 2004 he never hit fewer than 25 in a season. You also need to take into account the total number of games played; never a full season and only has come close four times - 159 games in '89, '93 & '97 and 158 games in '96.
Those stats compare fairly well to Aaron's if you don't factor in the 2001 season in which Bonds put up 73, breaking McGwire's previous record of 70. Hank Aaron never hit more than 47 homers in any single season but was a model of consistancy. As much as it pains me to admit to it, I believe that even without that 2001 season, Bonds would have eventually set the all-time mark, most likely during the '08 season. That said, the record will certainly belong to A-Rod if he can remain healthy over then next 6 years. The only question is in what uniform will he set the mark?
http://www.baseball-reference.com/a/aaronha01.shtml
http://www.baseball-reference.com/b/bondsba01.shtml
On topic, the fact is is that players have always been looking for something that gives them an edge over the competition; be it a nail file, pine tar, cork, creatine or what have you. MLB has managed to look the other way until someone made a complaint. I just recently read an article in which an independent firm examined the make up of baseballs from 1915 to present. There's a huge difference in the composition today than what was used in '76. In 1977, the number of home runs increased two fold after the introduction of the "modern" ball and the ball's composition has changed three times since Big Mac and Sosa had their personal Home Run Derby in '98. MLB gave the green light to Rawlings - the lone supplier of balls - to change the make up. Seems to me that there's plenty of blame to go around and not just with the players.
Now, when a guy like Brady Anderson can jack 50 long balls in a season when he'd never hit more than 21 in any previous year, that's cause for suspicion in my book. I'm certainly no fan of Barry Bonds in any way, but around his 5th season with Pittsburgh he seemed to have found his stroke and was fairly consistant in his home run production; from 1990 to 2004 he never hit fewer than 25 in a season. You also need to take into account the total number of games played; never a full season and only has come close four times - 159 games in '89, '93 & '97 and 158 games in '96.
Those stats compare fairly well to Aaron's if you don't factor in the 2001 season in which Bonds put up 73, breaking McGwire's previous record of 70. Hank Aaron never hit more than 47 homers in any single season but was a model of consistancy. As much as it pains me to admit to it, I believe that even without that 2001 season, Bonds would have eventually set the all-time mark, most likely during the '08 season. That said, the record will certainly belong to A-Rod if he can remain healthy over then next 6 years. The only question is in what uniform will he set the mark?
http://www.baseball-reference.com/a/aaronha01.shtml
http://www.baseball-reference.com/b/bondsba01.shtml
Wherever you go, there you are
I dunno, professional sports, along with Formula 1 racing, holds little interest for me. They both are so far removed from how most of us live, it makes it difficult to know what is real, imagined, or accomplished.
I much prefer high school or college sports, (starting to wonder on these fronts as well), rather than rooting for professional uniforms where the bodies in them seem to change yearly.
That being said, Mr. Bonds is scary. Not only as a ball player, buy I'd hate to bump into his car in a parking lot.
I much prefer high school or college sports, (starting to wonder on these fronts as well), rather than rooting for professional uniforms where the bodies in them seem to change yearly.
That being said, Mr. Bonds is scary. Not only as a ball player, buy I'd hate to bump into his car in a parking lot.
I'm just happy to be here.
love baseball always have, loved to play it every day, out there in January hitting a baseball even if it hurt like hell. Recently went to a Detroit game while on vacation up there nice park $30 tickets, $5 hot dogs, $8.50 for a beer and the place was packed. There has alway been contraband or vice of some form or another in the game. But still, it takes extraordinary eye hand coordination to just even foul one off given the velocity of todays pitchers. Which brings me to a pet peeve, What the hell happened to a pitcher throwing a complete game? The real workhorses that went out there every 3, 4 or 5 days all season and racked up a ton of innings pitched? Jack Morris types..I know they have gravitated to the bullpen middle relief guys and set up men and the heat missle throwing closer..is it because of the loot they are paying these top tier starting pitchers and they want to protect their arms or is it that todays pitchers right out of the gate ie. high school college and the lower minors are only being conditioned to pitch half a game. ie. " hopefully he can keep us in the game until the 6th or so" I don't like it. and for that matter can the DH too and the dumb wild card payoff ( even though Detroit made it that way last year)