Ric pickups?

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Sun Nov 09, 2003 6:20 am

The toasters are not phased out ... they still make them ... but they are quieter and thinner than the high gains or hb1's ... the toasters have a nice smooth sound ...

Sometimes I like a toaster in the neck and a modern high gain in the bridge ... without the bass cut capaciter ...

docbass · Post by **docbass** » Sun Nov 09, 2003 6:48 am

And the hi gains are essentially what I have on my 4003? Just checking to be sure I understand all of this!

docbass · Post by **docbass** » Sun Nov 09, 2003 7:01 am

JWR2, with a toaster in the neck and no bass cut capacitor, what type of sound do you get out of that? I'm thinking, why would you want a bass cut capacitor anyway?

rickcrazy · Post by **rickcrazy** » Sun Nov 09, 2003 1:49 pm

TO MAKE YOUR 4003 SOUND DISTINCTLY RICKENBACKER, HAHA!

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Sun Nov 09, 2003 2:58 pm

I have a 1968 4001 it came with a toaster in the neck and a horseshoe in the bridge ... it also came with the bass cut capaciter installed on the bridge pickup. These 60's basses have a cool and distinctive vintage sound. But this setup has less volume, less bass and lacks mid punch. In other words it is not good for modern music.

Then in the 70's Ric changed to all high gain pickups. They still used the bass cut capaciter to the bridge pickup. This setup was louder and fuller, but still very similar to a 60's bass.

Then came the 4003 .... the pickups got hotter and the bass cut capaciter went away ... this is a fuller, punchier, louder, more modern sound.

The Toaster in the neck is a cool option for a 4001 or 4003 ... it has a smooth vintage sound. The 4003s5 and 4003s8 both have the toaster in the neck from the factory.

Now some people will take a 4003 and put the bass cut capaciter in the bridge pickup to give it a retro vintage sound.

As most on this forum know I am into modern music and the fuller mid punch sound ... I actually add a third pickup to some of my ric's ... I remove the mute and put in a 1/4 pound seymour duncan jazz neck pickup in the bridge mute cavity. I wire this into the neck pickup volume control. This setup deliver a better sound with more full tone control than any active bass that I have played. The bell tones and pucny mids and full bottom ... really good growl.

So ... take a 4003 ... put a toaster in the neck position and leave the high gain in the bridge ... The bridge pickup is nasty and aggressive and the neck will be smoother and mellower ... then play with the volume controls and see what you like.

I played with that '68 4001 as my main bass fo 25 years ... then I got my first 4003 ... God I love that full thunderous sound ... The 4001 now sits in a case under my bed.

Also a common mod for 70's basses was to remove the capaciter ... I did this on the '73 and '74 I used to own ...

So I have laid out several pickup setups for you ... which you use is up to you and your taste ... each setup is cool in its own way ... which you choose may also depend on the music you play.

rictified · Post by **rictified** » Sun Nov 09, 2003 3:04 pm

I had two V63's, one was a 2000, the other was a 2002, first week, if I remember correctly, anyway on the 2000 V63 the toaster was nice and loud and full, on the newer one the toaster was very soft, the horseshoe pickup predominated on that bass, to equalize the volumes I had to lower the horseshoe so low that the bass was very weak. I don't know if I had a defective toaster in the newer one or what, but the 2000 sounded great and the 2002 didn't.
And Doc, the bass cut cap was put on the 4001's and maybe the real early 4003's, it kind of scooped out the mid range with both pickups on. It was only put on the treble pickup, not the bass pickup. Some of us here like them, and some of us don't. I myself bypass them as my basses sound more full. I use flats on all my Rics. So I guess I'm at the opposite end of the spectrum.
With TI flats though I get an unmistakeable Ric sound, especially when they are fairly new. I may wire one of my 4001's with the cap in just to see what it sounds like with TI flats.
With flats on a Ric I can out P a P bass for bottom, mid and top with much more clarity, and that's what I'm after, I don't mean a P bass sound but a sound with b&lls and clarity. The way I have mine setup they sound good through anything. (IMHO)

gstuadams · Post by **gstuadams** » Sun Nov 09, 2003 4:15 pm

I really do enjoy this forum. Previous arguments by Jeff, Bob, Sergio et. al. had convinced me to take out the capacitor on my 4001 treble PU but I have been too nervous about messing up and not having my bass for weeks while I fixed it/had it fixed. Now that the 4004 is here and getting all of my time anyway I think I'll have a go with the soldering iron on my '78.

jps · Post by **jps** » Sun Nov 09, 2003 4:19 pm

I just put Scatterwounds in my 4004Cii. Now it sounds like a Rickenbacker. If anybody wants to do this it is very easy. I do recommend using all the O-rings that come in the set, three per mounting screw.

keb · Post by **keb** » Sun Nov 09, 2003 4:55 pm

Gordon, very much agreed. I've said it before and I'll say it again: this forum has been a priceless source of information and opinions. It's making me want to get a couple more Rick basses (with different pickup configurations) so I can have a greater palette of Rick sounds.

docbass · Post by **docbass** » Mon Nov 10, 2003 3:04 am

OK, so how about a Hi gain neck pup at the neck position and a Toaster for the bridge position? I want power and depth from the neck pup, I know what I get from my 4003 neck pup now and I like it. As for the bridge, I only use it to mix some treble in and never play it "on only."

Other options I'm considering: 2 HB1s; a hi gain neck and a HB1 bridge.

The body on this project is small and wouldn't accomodate a 4003 bridge pup assembly well at all. Besides, I don't want to exactly duplicate what I have now anyway. I want a moderately differnt sound for this project.

I'd like the two pups to look the same, but I could live with the visual differences between a hi gain and a toaster/HB1 if they sounded good together. What do ya think?

bassduke49 · Post by **bassduke49** » Mon Nov 10, 2003 4:49 am

I'm certainly no expert, but I recall reading here or perhaps in the Bunnybass interview with John Hall, that the characteristic "Rick Sound" is generated more by the woods and the neck-through structure of the 4000 series basses than it is by the pickups. If you're trying to gain that "Rick Sound" on a homebuilt, the pickups may help, but probably won't give you what you want.

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Mon Nov 10, 2003 4:52 am

I don't think anybody has ever tried a toaster in the bridge position on a 4001/4003 ... how will it be installed/mounted into a Ric?

Also not all high gains are created equal 70's 80' and 90's high gains are all a little different. A good rule of thumb ... the newer the pickup the fuller and meatier it sounds ...

Then not all pickups from the same era sound the same ... there are small differences in tone and ohm readings ... then there is the occaisional bum pickup or bum wiring job on any bass that can change the sound ...

Also some Rics the pickups may be out of phase with each other ... Some basses sound louder and fuller when one of the volume controls is turned down to 8 or 9 and not 10.

For the sound you are looking for you might really like the 4004 ... you could try 4004 hb1 pickups on your 4003 ... if you use one hb1 and one high gain you may have the out of phase problem ...

The 4004 sounds more like a p-bass ... the 2 coils are probably wired in series like a p-bass is.

dave4004 · Post by **dave4004** » Mon Nov 10, 2003 9:11 am

Paul: John Hall has said that, but I respectfully disagree. I think pickups are always the biggest factor in solidbody tone. Of course, all RIC pickups have similar coil dimensions (including the overall dimensions of the 2 coils of the HBs) and all use AWG#44 wire, so there is at least some tonal similarity.

Besides, as soon as you rout out those pickup cavities you have cut deeply into the fibers of that single neck-through center piece, and the mounting screws for the pickups don't go into that piece anyway.

Doc: if you want a powerful, meaty bass sound, stay away from the toasters.

Jeff: I'm pretty sure the HB coils are wired in series. They do have series tonality.

dave4004 · Post by **dave4004** » Mon Nov 10, 2003 9:16 am

Also, in case anyone hasn't already noticed, Bunnybass has closed up shop. They have started an archive of bass photos but it requires a $4.95 a month membership. I predict that won't last long.

I hope someone has saved a copy of the John Hall interview or that it's on a mirror site somewhere.

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Mon Nov 10, 2003 9:44 am

I think bass tone is a full package ... it starts with the wood, then the bridge, the nut, the pickups, electronics, neck type ... etc ... when all those componets work together it will make your bass sound the way it does ...

Sometimes just changing the bridge will change the sound ... or maple vs rosewood fretboards ... or humbucker vs single coils ....