Radical opinion on Barry Bonds,the new HR King

rictified · Post by **rictified** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 12:02 pm

"So let me see if I have this right. It's not doing drugs that is a problem, it's doing drugs to gain an advantage in professional sport that's the problem."

There are many good uses for drugs, one of my nieces in Peru will maybe be a dwarf, she is on HGH although so far it doesn't seem to be working, that is a legitimate use of the drug, to make $50,000,000 and cheat your way into the baseball record books is not a legitimate use of the drug. LSD had a (maybe) legitimate use in psychiatry before it was abused, heroin is the best pain killer known to man by far, much better than morphine but it is abused so badly (which in itself is another controversial story)it is hysterically outlawed here in the US. Cocaine has medicinal uses also, on and on. Use and abuse of drugs are two different things.

dr_bob · Post by **dr_bob** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 12:28 pm

Granted. You are, of course, correct and my sincere best wishes for your niece. Please understand that what I say below extends our "Bonds conversation" and I do not mean to make light of your niece or anyone else's need for drug therapy

I now amend my principles.

1) Cheating is the problem in professional sports, but only cheating that involves gaining an unfair advantage through illegitimate drugs.

2) Cheating in professional sports that doesn't involve taking illegitimate drugs to gain an unfair advantage is okay. So home runs with corked bats, NASCAR victories with an illegal part, or using drugs legitimately (for example cortizone -- the legitimate steroid, see my * note below) are acceptable forms of cheating.

3) Illegitimate drug users are okay as long as they don't play sports.

4) In life the legitimate use of drugs is okay and at times both necessary and a very good thing.

Now we have to figure out who is in charge of determining what is or isn't a legitimate use of drugs.

* Cortisone is one of several end products of a process called steroidogenesis. This process starts with cholesterol which then goes through a series of reactions in the adrenal gland to produce a variety of steroid hormones.

Mark, do you think we could get the Myth Busters to do a show on steroid use and home run hitting?

rictified · Post by **rictified** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 12:42 pm

It probably was unfair of me to mention my niece especially for this purpose, I apologize to both you and my niece.

"Now we have to figure out who is in charge of determining what is or isn't a legitimate use of drugs."

In this country it is the AMA and the politicians who are in each other's hip pockets. I don't agree with many of their decisions on many of the drugs we use but I do on steroids, they are vicious drugs.

dr_bob · Post by **dr_bob** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 5:41 pm

Don't worry about it, Bob.

This is probably a good time to put this issue to rest. We've both gone at it pretty good -- no hard feelings on my part at all.

rickaddict · Post by **rickaddict** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 4:33 am

But wait...before you put the issue to rest, I'd like to say something Dr. Bob. I don't agree with several of your above principles:

"1) Cheating is the problem in professional sports, but only cheating that involves gaining an unfair advantage through illegitimate drugs.

2) Cheating in professional sports that doesn't involve taking illegitimate drugs to gain an unfair advantage is okay. So home runs with corked bats, NASCAR victories with an illegal part, or using drugs legitimately (for example cortizone -- the legitimate steroid, see my * note below) are acceptable forms of cheating."

I disagree. Cheating is not okay in any form. Whatever governing body oversees the sport in question should find ways to have its officials check for cheating, and athletes should be punished/fined/suspended accordingly. Bats should be checked for corking, baseballs should be checked for tampering, NASCAR parts should be checked to make sure they comply with NASCAR rules, and athletes should be checked regularly to make sure they aren't blood doping/using steroids or other performance enhancing substances.

Cortisone is banned in cycling. Maybe it should be banned in baseball/football/hockey/basketball as well.

"3) Illegitimate drug users are okay as long as they don't play sports."

I don't think any of us came to that conclusion. I think most of us are sad to see talented people who are drug/alcohol addicted. We all know of a hundred tragic examples of musicians that would have been better off without drugs/alcohol.

But I think the difference is that artists aren't competing in a measurable way. There is no need to have Mick Jagger pee in a cup before a Rolling Stones show to ensure that he isn't gaining a competitive advantage on Roger Daltrey. It just doesn't make sense.

Its not okay to abuse drugs and alcohol. The substance abusers are not deified because they are high or drunk. But how could we monitor the abuse and why?

dr_bob · Post by **dr_bob** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 1:48 pm

Sorry Jeff -- what I presented with the principles I did primarily in a "tongue 'n cheek" manner.

I do sense, however, that people do see steroid use in professional baseball as a different kind of cheating and that steroid use is particularly problematic when records are involved. No one seems to mind that Willie Wilson pleaded guilty to conspiracy to obtain cocaine (and I think using cocaine) and as a result call for all of his base stealing stats to be stricken from the books (his offense wasn't steroids). Furthermore, no one seems to be arguing that Giambi or Canseco's home runs (and both have admitted taking steroids) should be deleted from their personal stats, but people want to do that to Bonds (G and C didn't set records). So the difference with Bonds is that he allegedly took steroids and he has set records.

I also agree that all cheating should be dealt with in all sports and that all illegitimate drug use should be discouraged.

Get the sign stealers out of Wrigley's score board!!

rictified · Post by **rictified** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 1:56 pm

I would be willing to bet that if Bonds came clean he would be forgiven by many,........ what?? Are you kidding he'd be stripped of that record so sat his head would spin, haha!
I have no hard feelings either, especially since I have no real feelings for sports anymore, so it was just a game for me.. and you are a damn good player Dr. Bob

dr_bob · Post by **dr_bob** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 4:12 pm

Bob -- I hope our paths cross some day in non-virtual world and we share a few refreshments and some laughs. It's been fun.

rickaddict · Post by **rickaddict** » Wed Aug 22, 2007 4:43 am

I think all professional sports should test for steroid use, and all users should be removed.

firstbassman · Post by **firstbassman** » Thu Aug 23, 2007 10:39 am

"Football scores!?

I take it all back. Baseball scores more than football:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/baseball/mlb/08/22/rangers.orioles.ap/index.html

Thirty runs!?

The Ravens didn't score 30 points (across the parking lot) ALL LAST SEASON!!!

mgauction · Post by **mgauction** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 4:17 pm

HR baseball #756 just sold for $752,467.20 which includes a whopping 20% buyers premium from Sothebys.

dale_fortune · Post by **dale_fortune** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 11:11 pm

Geeeez has Barry hit any more home runs, you don't hear much about him since he broke H.A's record...

marc61 · Post by **marc61** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 2:03 am

and every HR's a record.

I went to see Nolan Ryan pitch in Texas in 1991. He set 13 major league records that game. 12 strikeouts - so every strikeout was a new record, and 10 or more K's, also a record...they were later broken by himself...

rictified · Post by **rictified** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 4:11 am

Pretty short records though at least except the last one, same with Steroid Boy Bonds.

wayang · Post by **wayang** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 10:29 am

"HR baseball #756 just sold for $752,467.20..."

What a load...I wish I'd have caught that ball. I would have gathered some media, walked halfway across the Golden Gate, done a left face and fired it as far as I could into the Pacific.

Try taxing that, ya r*t-b*st*rds...

(By the way, isn't Steroid Boy a new anime series on Nickelodeon?)