No lows in treble pickup

uffe · Post by **uffe** » Fri Aug 24, 2007 7:00 pm

i have a mid-late 70's rickenbacker 4001 that has an overall brighter tone than my other ricks, and a real noticeable difference between the bass and treble pickup. The treble really lives up to its name and has no bass. I swapped in a pair of replacements at both pickup positions, reverified the wiring and got the same results. The treble pickup has very very little bass, especially compared to the bass pickup. Overall it sounds nothing like my other ricks. All pots appear to be original and it's got the yellow .047 and .0047 caps. What could be the problem? Bad caps?

uffe · Post by **uffe** » Sat Aug 25, 2007 2:22 am

i removed the .0047 cap - and the issue is gone. i never fathomed the difference would be so huge. wow.

ilan · Post by **ilan** » Sat Aug 25, 2007 3:34 am

Shunt it, don't just remove it. That's a bass-cut (treble-bleed) capacitor. RIC stopped putting it there 20 years ago. The red wire in the pic is where the cap used to be. You don't even have to remove that cap, just attach the wire to both legs.

jps · Post by **jps** » Sat Aug 25, 2007 4:29 am

Here's mine!

Note the red wire shunting the .0047 cap. Keep in mind that only wire with red insulation will work as you can see from these two examples!

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Sat Aug 25, 2007 6:32 am

I just put in the push pull switch for a local Ric player here in Denver ... She had a 4001C64 ... she loved the slim neck but it didn't sound as good as her 4003 ... but now with the push pull switch she has it both ways ...

It was the first push pull circuit that I ever wired up ... it is a cool design and it works nicely ...

And I also used wire with red insulation ...

jps · Post by **jps** » Sat Aug 25, 2007 2:09 pm

Good to hear you used the red wire!

uffe · Post by **uffe** » Sun Aug 26, 2007 5:22 pm

guys - with the .0047 cap removed, the low end is back in the treble pickup, however this bass still sounds a lot brighter, and different from my 73 4001 and my '88 4003 (these two sound similar, and a lot less bright). As I mentioned above, i tried two sets of pickups, and the pots appear original. Any explanation? I can maybe record a clip.

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Sun Aug 26, 2007 6:17 pm

If you want to mellow out a 70s 4001 ... try putting in 250k ohm tone pots ... they sound really sweet with all 250k ohm pots and the original pickups and no cap ... I wired up several 70s 4001 basses this way and I was always pleased ... 250k ohm pots will make the bass a little less trebly and warmer sounding ...

deblase4001 · Post by **deblase4001** » Sun Aug 26, 2007 7:57 pm

I did the cap shunt to my 74 4001 earlier today. I am very pleased with the results. It sounds very sweet with my B-100R combo. Didn't use the red insulated wire though - guess I'll have to re-do it.

ilan · Post by **ilan** » Sun Aug 26, 2007 11:30 pm

Glad you got the lows back, Gene and Greg. Spread the word! Let's shunt every .0047 cap out there!

uffe · Post by **uffe** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 1:36 am

jeff - are (late?) 70's 4001s known to be brighter sounding than 4000 series basses from other periods? What would be the cause?

ilan · Post by **ilan** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 6:50 am

FWIW my '73 4001 is mellower sounding than my '86 4003 Shadow. But the pots on the '73 were changed to 330K, the .0047 cap is shunted and the neck pickup is a reissue toaster.

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 8:27 am

Gene ... 70s 4001 basses have 8k ohm high gains, the .0047 cap and 500k ohm tone pots ... the modern 4003 has 11k ohm pickups, no cap and 250k or 330k ohm tone pots ...

the higher the impedance number on a pickup the fatter it will sound, the higher the impedance number on the pots the brighter it will be, and the .0047 capacitor blocks all low mid and bass frequency response from a pickup ...

so with the capacitor, pots, and pickups there are 3 ways a 4001 will be brighter sounding than a modern 4003 ...

for my taste I like the .0047 cap removed and I like all 250k ohm pots in a 70s 4001 bass and I like the 8k ohm pickups in there as well ...

uffe · Post by **uffe** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 11:46 am

jeff,

i didn't realize that they went from 500k to 250k pots on the 4003's! that explains it - thank you.

Did the 73 and earlier basses have 500k pots as well?

rictified · Post by **rictified** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 1:30 pm

I have 78 and 79 4001's, the 79 is brighter than the 78. It is more than just the pickups that impact a bass's tone, these basses have almost identical pickups. Construction, materials and set up also have a lot to do with tone, every Rick sounds a little bit different from another one as do most brand basses. Generally though 70's Ricks are brighter sounding than later 4003's.