Starting a band
This may seem wimpy, but I think the main thing with starting a band is not to set your sights too high in the beginning, otherwise disappointment is sure to follow. A band is like a flower ... it must be planted and nurtured as it grows. Or is it more like a weed? Poison ivy? Have fun first and then start to slowly turn pro.... if you get to the manager/roadie level that is great - if not, then at least you'll have had a good time.
I've found that one issue that can become a bone of contention in a band is the dividing line between playing what the AUDIENCE knows and thinks it wants and playing what the band LIKES to play. The two are not always the same. Being in a (mostly) 50s-60s cover band, our drummer would only want to play the top-10 hits that people could sing along with. My opinion was that while some of that is good, the band should also play what IT LIKES and not worry about whether the audience recognizes the song or not. As we all know, there is a WORLD of GREAT songs out there that many/most people have either never heard or have long forgotten. If the band isn't playing what it has fun playing, then what's the point of it all?
Kevin made some great points:
>>>>On stage it's best to keep the pauses between songs to a minimum, ... No one wants to pay to see a band stand around deciding what the next song will be!
that one hits home to me. In the early days of my last band the lead singer would turn around to look at the set list and launch into a debate with the drummer on which song to play next. To make matters worse he would bend over and display his "plumbers crack" to the audience !!(which was, thankfully, small... the audience that is, not the crack). He thought it was funny ... I thought it was funny also, but I KNOW it simply killed the overall performance. YES!..... it takes a lot of practice, but keep the gaps to a minimum. Even 10 or 15 seconds can seem like a long time to the audience. Just ask yourself - how much time inbetween songs did The Beatles have while in Hamburg. Answer: not much.
>>>>Lighting effects really have a large impact for relatively little investment & effort. It doesn't have to be spectacular to leave a big impression on the crowd. A nice clean backdrop helps the whole atmosphere. Throw in a little fog machine action for spice.
We never got to the fog machine level, but I made some small, simple stage lights that would be at our feet angled up like small monitors. Just that little lighting made a WORLD of difference! (of course our drummer would complain about the bright lights, but he complained about everything so nobody took him seriously.... drummers can be odd that way - or so I've found in my limited experience).
oh.... and in my humble opinion the band name should be on the drumhead. Sure its been done to death, but to me a blank drumhead looks cheap and empty. (I've described my groovy foldable drumhead design in another thread but here's a picture of it) ----
I've found that one issue that can become a bone of contention in a band is the dividing line between playing what the AUDIENCE knows and thinks it wants and playing what the band LIKES to play. The two are not always the same. Being in a (mostly) 50s-60s cover band, our drummer would only want to play the top-10 hits that people could sing along with. My opinion was that while some of that is good, the band should also play what IT LIKES and not worry about whether the audience recognizes the song or not. As we all know, there is a WORLD of GREAT songs out there that many/most people have either never heard or have long forgotten. If the band isn't playing what it has fun playing, then what's the point of it all?
Kevin made some great points:
>>>>On stage it's best to keep the pauses between songs to a minimum, ... No one wants to pay to see a band stand around deciding what the next song will be!
that one hits home to me. In the early days of my last band the lead singer would turn around to look at the set list and launch into a debate with the drummer on which song to play next. To make matters worse he would bend over and display his "plumbers crack" to the audience !!(which was, thankfully, small... the audience that is, not the crack). He thought it was funny ... I thought it was funny also, but I KNOW it simply killed the overall performance. YES!..... it takes a lot of practice, but keep the gaps to a minimum. Even 10 or 15 seconds can seem like a long time to the audience. Just ask yourself - how much time inbetween songs did The Beatles have while in Hamburg. Answer: not much.
>>>>Lighting effects really have a large impact for relatively little investment & effort. It doesn't have to be spectacular to leave a big impression on the crowd. A nice clean backdrop helps the whole atmosphere. Throw in a little fog machine action for spice.
We never got to the fog machine level, but I made some small, simple stage lights that would be at our feet angled up like small monitors. Just that little lighting made a WORLD of difference! (of course our drummer would complain about the bright lights, but he complained about everything so nobody took him seriously.... drummers can be odd that way - or so I've found in my limited experience).
oh.... and in my humble opinion the band name should be on the drumhead. Sure its been done to death, but to me a blank drumhead looks cheap and empty. (I've described my groovy foldable drumhead design in another thread but here's a picture of it) ----
“The urge to save humanity is always a false front for the urge to rule it.” ....H. L. Mencken
Bands suck.
Now that we have that out of the way these are Big Al's rules for band harmony and success:
1. No chick singers
2. No one who just sings. Everyone should do at least two things musically.
3. Find a GOOD drummer.
4. First three songs of a set one after the other bang bang bang.
5. Be funny and disarming and entertaining on stage.
6. Tune that stupid guitar faster.
7. If I am in your band listen and do what I say because I am a musical genius artist and my ideas rule and you are merely a player with ****** ideas.
Now that we have that out of the way these are Big Al's rules for band harmony and success:
1. No chick singers
2. No one who just sings. Everyone should do at least two things musically.
3. Find a GOOD drummer.
4. First three songs of a set one after the other bang bang bang.
5. Be funny and disarming and entertaining on stage.
6. Tune that stupid guitar faster.
7. If I am in your band listen and do what I say because I am a musical genius artist and my ideas rule and you are merely a player with ****** ideas.
Listen to that sustain!
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beatlefreak
- Senior Member
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Alan.. I think you're right-on for the most part, especially about the drummer. Nothing can make an otherwise good band sound boring as a mediocre drummer.... and nothing can make an otherwise boring band sound exciting than a really good drummer.
But my question has to do with #1: No chick singers. I've not been a band with a chick singer, but this is not the first time I've heard that warning.
I can see a problem if the chick becomes 'involved' with one or more members of the band, but other than that.... Why (specifically) can this be a problem?
But my question has to do with #1: No chick singers. I've not been a band with a chick singer, but this is not the first time I've heard that warning.
I can see a problem if the chick becomes 'involved' with one or more members of the band, but other than that.... Why (specifically) can this be a problem?
“The urge to save humanity is always a false front for the urge to rule it.” ....H. L. Mencken
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lyle_from_minneapolis
- Advanced Member
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- Joined: Sun Nov 19, 2006 7:13 pm
Alan's just being funny. All those rules can be broken with great success, you can name the bands (Blondie, Zeppelin, etc).
My best advice is always about setting ground rules that you all agree upon. If you can't do that in the beginning, your multiple marriage will never fly.
Oh, that and Don't Date Each Other.
My best advice is always about setting ground rules that you all agree upon. If you can't do that in the beginning, your multiple marriage will never fly.
Oh, that and Don't Date Each Other.
Here is where I hide my music:
http://www.soundclick.com/MarkKaufman
http://www.soundclick.com/MarkKaufman
The rule about no chick singers is because I think they're basically useless. The rule about no one who just sings is that the singer ends up thinking he's the leader when in fact I am.
That and basically I think that you aren't getting the leverage you need from everyone if you aren't "multi" talented and it also gives various band members an opportunity to take the lead on a song and therefore a moment to shine.
This is all from a cover band perspective for the most part; record companies like a band to have one singer for a consistent sound and they prefer hot chicks as singers so they can get them on magazine covers and stuff like that.
One final note: chick bass players? Very hot.
That and basically I think that you aren't getting the leverage you need from everyone if you aren't "multi" talented and it also gives various band members an opportunity to take the lead on a song and therefore a moment to shine.
This is all from a cover band perspective for the most part; record companies like a band to have one singer for a consistent sound and they prefer hot chicks as singers so they can get them on magazine covers and stuff like that.
One final note: chick bass players? Very hot.
Listen to that sustain!
Goundrules: how true THAT is. Something like a band prenup, eh? Ideally band members will bury their egos, but thats probably too much to ask.
yea, though I'm a huge Blondi fan, I agree that everyone in a band should do more than just sing. A chick in the band certainly adds variety to the vocals....
Rule #8: Vary the intrumentation and vocals... Dont sound the same all the time.
A chick who can sing lead and backup and play an occasional keyboard and have the humility to NOT be out front ALL the time is what I'm looking for. Yea, I know, dream on.
yea, though I'm a huge Blondi fan, I agree that everyone in a band should do more than just sing. A chick in the band certainly adds variety to the vocals....
Rule #8: Vary the intrumentation and vocals... Dont sound the same all the time.
A chick who can sing lead and backup and play an occasional keyboard and have the humility to NOT be out front ALL the time is what I'm looking for. Yea, I know, dream on.
“The urge to save humanity is always a false front for the urge to rule it.” ....H. L. Mencken
A few personal rules/observations:
1. Respect is a necessary part of hanging with a bunch of folks for a long time.
2. Joy is the reason we do this.
3. My music buddy likes to recite the Musician's Hippocratic Oath: first do no harm (I take this as meaning to the music or anyone who might hear it.)
4. Listen.
5. Benevolent authoritarian figure(s) can make things work. In bands, democracies often break down. Face it, a bunch of nice people deferring to each other seldom gets the job done. If someone is doing more work and driving their vision, the band is better. (This is not to say that a fine bunch of co-equal partners can't do it, but I've never witnessed that.)
6. Work stuff out in practice and rehearsal. Fighting about arrangements or making disparaging remarks on stage about decisions already made is violently unprofessional and has torn up lots of bands.
7. Some people cannot ingest altering substances and contribute positively to a musical experience. This makes it a real pain for others who can and do and yet others who can't and don't (okay and yet others who can but don't.) This sort of thing needs to be addressed if you are going to do anything professionally.
8. Ostensibly, the voice _is_ an instrument. Some people have had training at it. If you already have seven guitarists in the band that are better than the vocalist, the vocalist does not have to contribute in an otherwise instrumental fashion. I say this, because I don't play when my fingers have nothing to say- especially when there is plenty of guitar going on (see #3.) Hmmm, maybe nobody needs seven guitarists.
9. Please keep stage volumes reasonable. Hearing is a good thing to have forever, but it is even a good thing to have right now.
10. Solos: um, if you're gonna do one, uh, can it have a start, a middle and an end? Can the start and the end not be so far apart as to cause spontaneous projectile vomiting? (Unless you're in a serious punk band. Then projectile vomiting is better than clapping from the audience, and you should keep doing exactly what you're doing, unless your solo is also causing you to projectile vomit.)
I guess I keep basically repeating rules 1, 2 and 3 here.
1. Respect is a necessary part of hanging with a bunch of folks for a long time.
2. Joy is the reason we do this.
3. My music buddy likes to recite the Musician's Hippocratic Oath: first do no harm (I take this as meaning to the music or anyone who might hear it.)
4. Listen.
5. Benevolent authoritarian figure(s) can make things work. In bands, democracies often break down. Face it, a bunch of nice people deferring to each other seldom gets the job done. If someone is doing more work and driving their vision, the band is better. (This is not to say that a fine bunch of co-equal partners can't do it, but I've never witnessed that.)
6. Work stuff out in practice and rehearsal. Fighting about arrangements or making disparaging remarks on stage about decisions already made is violently unprofessional and has torn up lots of bands.
7. Some people cannot ingest altering substances and contribute positively to a musical experience. This makes it a real pain for others who can and do and yet others who can't and don't (okay and yet others who can but don't.) This sort of thing needs to be addressed if you are going to do anything professionally.
8. Ostensibly, the voice _is_ an instrument. Some people have had training at it. If you already have seven guitarists in the band that are better than the vocalist, the vocalist does not have to contribute in an otherwise instrumental fashion. I say this, because I don't play when my fingers have nothing to say- especially when there is plenty of guitar going on (see #3.) Hmmm, maybe nobody needs seven guitarists.
9. Please keep stage volumes reasonable. Hearing is a good thing to have forever, but it is even a good thing to have right now.
10. Solos: um, if you're gonna do one, uh, can it have a start, a middle and an end? Can the start and the end not be so far apart as to cause spontaneous projectile vomiting? (Unless you're in a serious punk band. Then projectile vomiting is better than clapping from the audience, and you should keep doing exactly what you're doing, unless your solo is also causing you to projectile vomit.)
I guess I keep basically repeating rules 1, 2 and 3 here.
"rubber heads don't dent easily"
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lyle_from_minneapolis
- Advanced Member
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- Joined: Sun Nov 19, 2006 7:13 pm
Sharkboy KNOWS. Those are some great groundrules, and you didn't even stoop to calling women chicks! (I always get an image of 3 or 4 annoyed-looking men backing up a dumb, heavily made-up beauty with no talent...well, who among them is the smartest?)
I gotta say, all-boy bands work fine, but it's just one way to go, and really no better than any blend of men or women. I mean, seriously, if the band is just an old boy's club...then who are you playing for?
I gotta say, all-boy bands work fine, but it's just one way to go, and really no better than any blend of men or women. I mean, seriously, if the band is just an old boy's club...then who are you playing for?
Here is where I hide my music:
http://www.soundclick.com/MarkKaufman
http://www.soundclick.com/MarkKaufman