I opened the case of my 4003FL yesterday only to find that the binding has come away from the lower half of body starting from the strap pin by about 4cm. Is there any special type of glue that I need to use as some may attack the plastic binding. I'm a bit puzzled how this has happened as I thought the lacquer was applied after the binding is glued at the factory so as to help keep it in place.
thanks
Help with binding problem
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dale_fortune
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carefully tape off the area around the binding leaving only the binding exposed. I use a hypo-needle to inject Acetone (very small amounts) into the channel where the binding lays. the Acetone will act as a glue to hold the binding to the wood. As the Acetone is injected, the binding is lightly pressed back into place and allowed to dry. Take off the tape and this will hold it onto the body. You must be very careful not to get Acetone onto the finish, it will soften it. If you do let it dry, do not touch or rub the area affected. Polishing compounds can be used to buff the area out.
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dale_fortune
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I should add that I use a special vinyl tape for this...it can be bought at automotive paint and supply depts. or major auto parts stores such as NAPA. it is 1/2 inch wide and spendy, about 10 dollars a roll. The regular type of masking tape does not seal very well and the Acetone will penetrate the edges causing problems.
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jingle_jangle
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Two types of glue can be used to put the binding back on:
First, there is the glue which dissolves the binding to allow it to adhere better to the grain if the routed edge step. This is the type of glue used by the factory, and is composed of bits of celluloid binding cutoffs dissolved in acetone to make a white paste. This is best used on a guitar or bass, before any finish has been applied.
DuPont "Duco" also fits this description; its formulation is different. It is cellulose acetate butyrate dissolved in a solution of several solvents, primarily toluene, but also including butyl cellusolve. It looks innocuous, smells nasty, is crystal clear (yellows over time), and is what some "old school" repairmen use to re-affix binding on already-finished instruments.
Some guys use straight acetone, but this evaporates very quickly and does not give the best bond.
With Duco, you lay a thin bead in the corner of the step, and press the binding into place. Tape with masking tape for a couple of hours, then peel the tape off. A small amount of "ooze out" on the surface can be cleaned up, once completely hardened, with a single edge razor blade held nearly vertically and used as a scraper. Then use polishing compound and wax to clean up the scraper marks.
Second kind of glue is good old superglue, which is commonly used these days for this purpose. This is a self-catalyzing, anaerobic material which everybody is familiar with. It has one major drawback: it can be messy in the hands of an inexperienced repair person. If you're going to use this stuff, use the "gap-filling" type, as it's easier to control. Lay down a very thin coating on the binding (or lay a small bead in the inside corner of the "step" edge of the instrument), and press the binding into place using as many fingers as possible. The trick is to get enough into the gap to get the binding to stick, but not so much as to cause a lot of "ooze-out".
As above, tape, scrape, polish, and wax, to smoothen the surface. The Lemmy should be scraped and waxed; no polish.
And if either of you guys don't feel up to the task, get it to a luthier who knows his finishes.
Why did it happen? because the gluing operation--which is done entirely by hand on a small batch of instruments at a time--led somehow to a smallish "dry" area, where the adhesive for one reason or other, didn't penetrate into the substrates completely. Or a small trauma or binding shrinkage caused it to come loose.
The clear coat on a 4003 is not "lacquer", but conversion varnish (catalyzing two-part polyurethane) which doesn't do a whole lot to hold binding on. It's there for protection and gloss and is typically only .007"-.010" (.25mm) thick.
First, there is the glue which dissolves the binding to allow it to adhere better to the grain if the routed edge step. This is the type of glue used by the factory, and is composed of bits of celluloid binding cutoffs dissolved in acetone to make a white paste. This is best used on a guitar or bass, before any finish has been applied.
DuPont "Duco" also fits this description; its formulation is different. It is cellulose acetate butyrate dissolved in a solution of several solvents, primarily toluene, but also including butyl cellusolve. It looks innocuous, smells nasty, is crystal clear (yellows over time), and is what some "old school" repairmen use to re-affix binding on already-finished instruments.
Some guys use straight acetone, but this evaporates very quickly and does not give the best bond.
With Duco, you lay a thin bead in the corner of the step, and press the binding into place. Tape with masking tape for a couple of hours, then peel the tape off. A small amount of "ooze out" on the surface can be cleaned up, once completely hardened, with a single edge razor blade held nearly vertically and used as a scraper. Then use polishing compound and wax to clean up the scraper marks.
Second kind of glue is good old superglue, which is commonly used these days for this purpose. This is a self-catalyzing, anaerobic material which everybody is familiar with. It has one major drawback: it can be messy in the hands of an inexperienced repair person. If you're going to use this stuff, use the "gap-filling" type, as it's easier to control. Lay down a very thin coating on the binding (or lay a small bead in the inside corner of the "step" edge of the instrument), and press the binding into place using as many fingers as possible. The trick is to get enough into the gap to get the binding to stick, but not so much as to cause a lot of "ooze-out".
As above, tape, scrape, polish, and wax, to smoothen the surface. The Lemmy should be scraped and waxed; no polish.
And if either of you guys don't feel up to the task, get it to a luthier who knows his finishes.
Why did it happen? because the gluing operation--which is done entirely by hand on a small batch of instruments at a time--led somehow to a smallish "dry" area, where the adhesive for one reason or other, didn't penetrate into the substrates completely. Or a small trauma or binding shrinkage caused it to come loose.
The clear coat on a 4003 is not "lacquer", but conversion varnish (catalyzing two-part polyurethane) which doesn't do a whole lot to hold binding on. It's there for protection and gloss and is typically only .007"-.010" (.25mm) thick.
“I say in speeches that a plausible mission of artists is to make people appreciate being alive at least a little bit. I am then asked if I know of any artists who pulled that off. I reply, 'The Beatles did.”
― Kurt Vonnegut
― Kurt Vonnegut
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dale_fortune
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Acetone is very thin, it penetrates evenly into the binding and channel when applied with a hypo-needle, evaporates quickly(this is why Luthiers and the Rickenbacker Factory use it)melts the binding into the grain of the wood for good bonding. If you were building a guitar from scratch then other options can be applied. I would never use instant glues on the binding of a guitar/bass, especially one that the binding has come loose on, they are unpredictable,messy and permanent, and if you get any on the guitar where you didn't want it, you are opening a can of worms and creating more work for yourself and your fingers.
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jingle_jangle
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Lots of folks use super glue; it's easy to find and not so easy to use, which is why my instructions are quite specific.
I don't use it for whole binding jobs, either, but it does come in handy for repairs from time to time. I have come down against it before in my own topic section, even though other luthiers swear by it.
No question that it requires caution to use. With the combination of your warnings, Dale, and my cautious description, I hope that anyone attempting this goes in well-informed.
In building guitars from scratch, I don't use a single drop of the stuff; I use the same blend of acetone and old binding mixed to a thin paste that I describe above, and that RIC uses. It sands and scrapes easily and doesn't stain the wood.
I'd also caution against any "one" solution to a problem. Every luthier or repairman has a method that he prefers, and the better he can explain it so that a newbie can achieve success with the method described, the more everyone benefits from the education.
Luthiers like Erlewine promote super glue as a panacea and a shortcut to guitar building and repair. Not coincidentally, Stew-Mac, Erlewine's employers, sell boatloads of this stuff. Through trial and error, it can be discovered that some of these solutions work, and some are far less than ideal.
I don't use it for whole binding jobs, either, but it does come in handy for repairs from time to time. I have come down against it before in my own topic section, even though other luthiers swear by it.
No question that it requires caution to use. With the combination of your warnings, Dale, and my cautious description, I hope that anyone attempting this goes in well-informed.
In building guitars from scratch, I don't use a single drop of the stuff; I use the same blend of acetone and old binding mixed to a thin paste that I describe above, and that RIC uses. It sands and scrapes easily and doesn't stain the wood.
I'd also caution against any "one" solution to a problem. Every luthier or repairman has a method that he prefers, and the better he can explain it so that a newbie can achieve success with the method described, the more everyone benefits from the education.
Luthiers like Erlewine promote super glue as a panacea and a shortcut to guitar building and repair. Not coincidentally, Stew-Mac, Erlewine's employers, sell boatloads of this stuff. Through trial and error, it can be discovered that some of these solutions work, and some are far less than ideal.
“I say in speeches that a plausible mission of artists is to make people appreciate being alive at least a little bit. I am then asked if I know of any artists who pulled that off. I reply, 'The Beatles did.”
― Kurt Vonnegut
― Kurt Vonnegut
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robcollins
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beatlefreak
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