"Rockinsbetter"

dswp · Post by **dswp** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 3:16 am

I prefer my American icons to be actually made in America.

rickenbrother · Post by **rickenbrother** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 3:29 am

Ditto!

geddeeee · Post by **geddeeee** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 6:10 am

Ricks are not that expensive. Out of all the different BIG name bass manufacturers, RIC is the one where quality is paramount. The price has stayed relatively cheap, but QC has not suffered. Look at some of the F**der pricing. Gulp!!!
If you can't afford a Rick, then go with one of the cheaper brands. In the end you get what you pay for!!

blazer · Post by **blazer** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 4:25 am

Well the solution would be to reissue the 3000 series or to make the 4000 series re-appear. With them having bolt on and set in necks they would be cheaper to produce and you'll have a genuine USA made Rickenbacker all the same.

ricosound · Post by **ricosound** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 4:32 am

In an age of CNC and automation, I would think that neck through would be less labor intensive than set-neck or bolt and therefore cheaper to produce and set up IMO.

rick_redux · Post by **rick_redux** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 5:43 am

I very much like the fact that Ric is so protective of its brand. As a consumer, I like knowing that the company is spending what I'm sure is no small amount on defending its brand in the courts (if necessary). For that reason, I would never even pick up a knock-off, no matter how enticing the price.

Having said that, there are some awfully good guitars and basses made offshore these days, particularly in Korea. The Skyline series probably saved Dan Lakin's company. And if you've ever played a Korean-made Reverend six-stringer, you know the quality that country is capable of producing (with a strong corporate guiding hand). They are incredible guitars for the buck, IMO.

And I'm not sure everyone gets the "made in USA" connection with Rics. Maybe in the States, but here in Canada I've had several people (musicians and non) say, "Oh is it made in Germany?" Some are quite surprised when I say it's US-made.

Personally, I like Ric's corporate philosophy as it sits. But if John Hall were able to strike a deal with a Korean plant to build less expensive, offshore instruments of the quality that companies like Lakland and Reverend are achieving, I'd be there!

chucksimms · Post by **chucksimms** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 6:07 am

I too believe that Rick has done the right thing by never building (or allowing) anything other than a made in the USA instrument. As for Tokai, in the early '80s their Les Paul copies (the 'Love Rock') was a better guitar than Gibson was making. They're not the same quality now, but I'd trade most of the late '70s and '80s Les Pauls for my friend's 1982 Tokai.
I also have a Made in China Affinity series Tele that is one of the best Teles- Fender or otherwise- I've ever played, and it was $200 new.

rickaddict · Post by **rickaddict** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 10:12 am

Really? Do late 70's and early 80's Les Pauls have a bad rep?

My brother has an '81 or '82 Les Paul Custom in Silverburst. I picked it out over 25 years ago and my family chipped in and got it for him as a HS graduation present. He LOVES the guitar. Its been his main axe for all these years now. It has held up much better than my (white!) 4001 that I've had for almost as long. It sounds absolutely fantastic, still looks amazing and has never needed any work of any kind.

Its a little heavy and doesn't balance as well as my Rick, but I couldn't imagine anyone preferring a Tokai copy to it!

sloop_john_b · Post by **sloop_john_b** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 10:42 am

Nope, early 80's Les Paul's were actually of excellent build quality. Early-to-mid 70's was when all the bad ones were made.

That being said, Orville (Japanese equivalent of Epiphone here in the late 80's to 90's), Burny, Greco, and Tokai have all built excellent, sometimes better-than-Gibson Gibsons.

lyle_from_minneapolis · Mon Sep 24, 2007 10:44 am

I love the heaviness of a Les Paul. It's part of the charm.

heinpete · Post by **heinpete** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 9:15 pm

The charm of the heaviness of the Paula exhibits when the guitarists get down on their knees!

henry5 · Post by **henry5** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 11:37 pm

A friend has an '80 Les paul which he's very attached to (it was his first guitar) but I can't say it's a particularly great guitar. It weighs a ton and is quite nasal sounding. The 2005 LP he bought a while back is much better. In fact I have an Epi LP which sounds better. But regardless, even in periods of poor quality, some great guitars still sneak through (ask Marcus Miller).With regards to the copy issue, I've played some fantastic early Tokais, certainly better than the majority of Gibsons/Fenders I've played.

Just out of interest, is the whole "Made in the USA" thing because it theoretically equates to better quality or is it a loyalty issue for those living in the US? Although I admire John Hall's principles and am perfectly happy for production to stay in the US, as someone who lives in the UK "Made in The USA" certainly isn't an issue when it comes to loyalty. I guess I should probably be playing UK built guitars exclusively (well I have got a Sei, and it is fantastic....).

grayk · Post by **grayk** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 12:03 am

I have had 2 Tokais, a Jaco Jazz (late 80's before Fender even thought of the idea)which was unbelievable and a P copy called the Hardpuncher. Both were Jap made and both were of serious quality. However I have tried a Rockinbetter Ric copy and it was absolutely garbage !! Seriously bad. They are no threat to Ric but like others I agree with Mr Hall taking strong action against the makers of these copies. I know I have contradicted myself here but Fender give up on the copying problem an age ago. Nothing is like a Ric and long shall it stay that way.

heinpete · Post by **heinpete** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 12:07 am

I don't have any issue with loyality as Rickenbacker primarily is a German brand anyway and specially the Roger Rossmeisl design of the 4000 series is basically German "origin".

However since Mercedes Benz has a lot of production sites outside Germany, I don't mind the US-production of Rickenbacker.

I guess besides the tailpiece lift, the truss rod adjustment aso. there might be more issues arising from a third world country production. So I have to accept the current pricing and lack of parts supply over here.

lucky · Post by **lucky** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 1:03 am

EVEN if Rickenbacker allowed another company in South East Asia,to build their guitars & basses they would still only be a pale version of the original.You would have the shape & look and nothing else,there is no way that Rickenbacker or any other American guitar company would allow a Korean made Instrument to be better made and sound like their USA made model.
We live in a world now where we can get guitars & basses that look like they cost thousands of £ and yet only cost a few hundred £.