Remember This One 4001?

rickcrazy · Post by **rickcrazy** » Tue Nov 18, 2003 1:53 am

Some of you may still remember James Grove's 1972 '21 fret' 4001.
Yeah, the pickup is a G&L, the bridge is probably a BadAss, the bass pickup is a (period-incorrect) high-gain, and originally the bass was fretless, as hinted at by the fretboard dot markers, but everything else on it (down to the body routes) appeared to be genuinely Rickenbacker. Even the totally unusual (for a 4001, that is) wide 'skunk stripe' was unmistakably Rickenbacker, viz the 4005 Model. Surprisingly, though, JH's opinion was that this particular 4001 was not a Rickenbacker by any stretch of the imagination. Sadly, James never got to show JH the bass, and we were left in the dark as to its origin.

rickcrazy · Post by **rickcrazy** » Tue Nov 18, 2003 2:01 am

Yeah, that is a bound headstock, and the body has checkered binding. I remember comparing the headstock shape and the tuner placement with those on my 1970 21 fret 4001, and they matched perfectly, ditto for the body routes. Quite what is the story behind this (genuine, I feel) 4001 is anyone's guess.

rob · Post by **rob** » Tue Nov 18, 2003 7:30 am

I love the Walnut(?)/Maple headstock with the binding. The 4001S style fretboard really goes well with it, IMHO.

ojobob2 · Post by **ojobob2** » Tue Nov 18, 2003 7:59 am

Sergio - yep i remember reading the threads about that odd bass. I remember that one of JH's points was that it appeared to be made of a type of maple that RIC have never used (or something along those lines)

of course, John Hall obviously knows his stuff, and i must say that the fretboard looks an odd colour for a Rick, but in many ways looks totally real.

Am i right in that i remember it as having proper "old style" rods and routes?

rickcrazy · Post by **rickcrazy** » Tue Nov 18, 2003 11:38 am

Yes. Here's a pic of the headstock.

rickcrazy · Post by **rickcrazy** » Tue Nov 18, 2003 11:42 am

And here's a close-up shot of the body.

johnhall · Post by **johnhall** » Tue Nov 18, 2003 12:10 pm

It may have been made by an employee (or ex-employee) either as an authorized personal project or otherwise, but in no way, shape, or form was this a production instrument, i.e. for a customer. I also never saw anything like this as a prototype either and and would have been one of the first to see any prototype.

I have a pretty good suspicion as to the origins of this guitar anyway.

ojobob2 · Post by **ojobob2** » Tue Nov 18, 2003 1:19 pm

John, what is your suspicion? I for one would like to hear the conclusion to all this

rictified · Post by **rictified** » Tue Nov 18, 2003 1:41 pm

Ibanez?

rickcrazy · Post by **rickcrazy** » Tue Nov 18, 2003 1:41 pm

YES! Many thanks for chiming in, John.
A one-off 4001 made by an employee as a personal project - that makes perfect sense to me! I feel that if James Grove's 4001 is a genuine Rickenbacker, it sure has considerable historical value.
I wish James Grove would show you the bass in person.
I think I'll e-mail him.
Thanks again, John.

cheyenne · Post by **cheyenne** » Tue Nov 18, 2003 2:20 pm

I saw the Dave Brubeck? Quartet on public TV back in the early 80's. It was a live performance I saw many times, and the bass player had a fretless 4001 with a head piece not too unlike this one. But then again that was a long time ago...even still, that stands out in my mind.

jps · Post by **jps** » Tue Nov 18, 2003 2:54 pm

Wasn't that his son Chris?

wints · Post by **wints** » Tue Nov 18, 2003 5:05 pm

That is one great bass IMHO...I,ve always thought it had to be a one off from the factory that an employee made for their personal use, or for a friend...It,s just too different for the period, but all the Ric features are present. Surely there,s an old invoice hidden away somewhere there John.....Well... maybe not in this case......Personally, and I,d like to think a few will agree with me here, in that I,d like to see a version of this bass in production. With Ric pick ups of course...It has all the features that this board constantly rave about, and that the factory could (and sometimes does) replicate today..binding, (does that headstock look great or what) 21 frets..(24 would be even better) and those dot inlays that seem ever popular, so no old MOP issues there. Manufacture to C series specs (ie, thin, thin neck) with horseshoe...right/lefty headstock for all tastes..Comes in this years custom purpleburst colour...form an orderly Q....

johnhall · Post by **johnhall** » Tue Nov 18, 2003 5:58 pm

An employee instrument is NOT a "Rickenbacker".

Don't forget that Semie Mosely's Mosrite prototypes were his (unauthorized) employee instruments as he learned his trade as an RIC employee.

By the same reasoning, I also don't consider Forest White's Rickenbacker prototype (that ended up being the first Music Man instrument) to be a "Rickenbacker", nameplate notwithstanding.

Chris Brubeck still plays that bass and has just about worn it out completely, he told me recently.

jps · Post by **jps** » Tue Nov 18, 2003 6:56 pm

How about a Chris Brubeck Limited Edition that would have piano keys inlaid in the body as a tribute to his dad?