Good points, Glenn...and contrast Manson and his 'crazy antics' with OJ and Phil...their courtroom 'antic' consists of shuttin' up, sittin' there and lettin' the law-talkin'-guy do the law-talkin'...something Manson wasn't capable of doing anymore than he could afford a high-priced defense.
Bugliosi might be a brilliant guy, but Manson prosecuted himself.
Phil Spectacle
According to the book,one of the girls had a fairly well known defense attorney who took the case for the media coverage. And he was known for his endless objections to drag a trial out. Most high profile defendants like Scott Peterson can't afford a high priced defense either. But there are some big names who will take a case like that for the publicity involved. And some will do it on moral grounds too. One of the top defense lawyers in the nation took the Randy Weaver/Ruby Ridge case for that reason. Weaver couldn't have afforded him in his wildest dreams.
I recently went back to playing a Rickenbacker bass. Its like meeting an old friend again
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lyle_from_minneapolis
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And it's a mistrial.
Next case...
Next case...
Here is where I hide my music:
http://www.soundclick.com/MarkKaufman
http://www.soundclick.com/MarkKaufman
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studiotwosession
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shamustwin
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studiotwosession
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That's a bold prediction. But I suspect judge #2 will have learned a few things from this first round, which may make things tougher on the defence in game two. I predict a shorter game next time, perhaps significantly shorter.
I wonder what round one cost, and how much Phil's got because round two ain't gonna be a two for one deal. This had to be big time change.
It's interesting how the prosecution noted the defense was arguing suicide despite the fact that the victim was killed near the front door of the home of a guy who's been oft accused of pointing guns at people when they want to leave. She even had her purse around he shoulder, as if she was ready to walk out the door.
A few of those jurors sound awfully thick.
I wonder what round one cost, and how much Phil's got because round two ain't gonna be a two for one deal. This had to be big time change.
It's interesting how the prosecution noted the defense was arguing suicide despite the fact that the victim was killed near the front door of the home of a guy who's been oft accused of pointing guns at people when they want to leave. She even had her purse around he shoulder, as if she was ready to walk out the door.
A few of those jurors sound awfully thick.
This is off the record
How do you guys know that just maybe they were both so high or drunk or likely both that she actually did shoot herself (purposely or accidently) and he just didn't act logically as he was too loaded to think? Most people here are ready to hang the guy and really don't know what happened, we may never really know.
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studiotwosession
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Depends what you consider the test of "beyond a reasonable doubt."
On the one hand, per the other side of the coin (her being at least somewhat responsible for being shot), you have the fact that they may have been pretty high or drunk (not sure what tests revealed in that regard.) And that this somehow might have contributed to her shooting herself, or her getting shot. (Keep in mind that if Spector was trashed, and killed her, the fact that he was trashed does not protect him under the law. Most murders are committed by people under the influence of something. Under the law, if you were high, you are no less guilty, get a lighter sentence, etc.) Otherwise, is there something more to this theory?
On the other hand you have:
1. The body being found near the door of the house of an often angry guy who numerous people (including musicians) have testified has a penchant for pulling guns on those who try to leave his presence (behavior going back 35 years.)
2. The victim had her purse around her shoulder as if she was in the process of leaving.
3. Spector wiped the gun off after the shooting (how high could he have been to do this? He removed all prints from the gun.) Why would he remove her prints from the gun? Because he was high?
4. He placed the gun under the victim's leg.
5. He changed clothes after the shooting.
6. He wiped up a lot of blood on and around the body.
7. He never called for medical help (yet was coherent enough to defy everything the cops asked him to do when they arrived (i.e. he was not so stoned or drunk that he couldn't walk around and in and out of his house numerous times.)
8. An eyewitness saw him with the gun in his hand just after the shot rang out.
9. The witness clearly heard Spector say "I think I shot someone," not "someone just shot herself," or "she just killed herself," or even "oh my God, it was an accident," and this is in the police report.
10. Spector resisted arrest. He had to be tackled before the cuffs could be put on him.
11. Never, at the scene during his arrest, did he say anything about the victim shooting herself, or otherwise being responsible for what happened, even though he was there for quite a while. These kinds of things only emerged hours later, at the police station.
12. The defense has no answers for all of the above, and didn't dispute it. They only offered theories about blood spatter from paid witnesses, and testimony that the victim would rather have been making movies than waiting tables, but I suspect she was not the only one like that in LA. Most of these people don't kill themselves, and the few who do probably don't do it compulsively in the homes of, and in front of, strangers.
13. Spector wouldn't take the stand in his defense.
Given this, to me, he looks guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. And apparently 10 of 12 jurors, after listening to nearly half a year of all kinds of defense scenarios, agree. But after all that time, the seeds of doubt were planted in the minds of a couple of people by lawyers who were able to argue for weeks at a time that everything under the sun could have happened.
Otherwise, as far as doubt goes, people are convicted of murder every day, even when there was no one around to hear them say something incriminating just after someone was killed, or see them with a weapon in their hands. But most of these people don't have bankrolls to keep a trial going for half a year, five years after the fact.
On the one hand, per the other side of the coin (her being at least somewhat responsible for being shot), you have the fact that they may have been pretty high or drunk (not sure what tests revealed in that regard.) And that this somehow might have contributed to her shooting herself, or her getting shot. (Keep in mind that if Spector was trashed, and killed her, the fact that he was trashed does not protect him under the law. Most murders are committed by people under the influence of something. Under the law, if you were high, you are no less guilty, get a lighter sentence, etc.) Otherwise, is there something more to this theory?
On the other hand you have:
1. The body being found near the door of the house of an often angry guy who numerous people (including musicians) have testified has a penchant for pulling guns on those who try to leave his presence (behavior going back 35 years.)
2. The victim had her purse around her shoulder as if she was in the process of leaving.
3. Spector wiped the gun off after the shooting (how high could he have been to do this? He removed all prints from the gun.) Why would he remove her prints from the gun? Because he was high?
4. He placed the gun under the victim's leg.
5. He changed clothes after the shooting.
6. He wiped up a lot of blood on and around the body.
7. He never called for medical help (yet was coherent enough to defy everything the cops asked him to do when they arrived (i.e. he was not so stoned or drunk that he couldn't walk around and in and out of his house numerous times.)
8. An eyewitness saw him with the gun in his hand just after the shot rang out.
9. The witness clearly heard Spector say "I think I shot someone," not "someone just shot herself," or "she just killed herself," or even "oh my God, it was an accident," and this is in the police report.
10. Spector resisted arrest. He had to be tackled before the cuffs could be put on him.
11. Never, at the scene during his arrest, did he say anything about the victim shooting herself, or otherwise being responsible for what happened, even though he was there for quite a while. These kinds of things only emerged hours later, at the police station.
12. The defense has no answers for all of the above, and didn't dispute it. They only offered theories about blood spatter from paid witnesses, and testimony that the victim would rather have been making movies than waiting tables, but I suspect she was not the only one like that in LA. Most of these people don't kill themselves, and the few who do probably don't do it compulsively in the homes of, and in front of, strangers.
13. Spector wouldn't take the stand in his defense.
Given this, to me, he looks guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. And apparently 10 of 12 jurors, after listening to nearly half a year of all kinds of defense scenarios, agree. But after all that time, the seeds of doubt were planted in the minds of a couple of people by lawyers who were able to argue for weeks at a time that everything under the sun could have happened.
Otherwise, as far as doubt goes, people are convicted of murder every day, even when there was no one around to hear them say something incriminating just after someone was killed, or see them with a weapon in their hands. But most of these people don't have bankrolls to keep a trial going for half a year, five years after the fact.
This is off the record
GUILTY
There must be something in the water that they give to LA jurors.
A look at the nine-man, three-woman jury in Phil Spector's murder trial, based on their jury questionnaires:
1—Male senior producer for "Dateline NBC." Early 40s. Had been assigned to cover the case and did research.
2—Male vice president of a movie company and its music division. Early 50s. Owns two "collector" handguns. Said he and his wife took firearms training and decided not to buy weapons for home defense.
3—Female assistant to a Los Angeles deputy mayor. Mid-50s. Separated for many years from husband who served time for murder and is incarcerated.
4—Male environmental health specialist for Los Angeles County. Mid-50s. Owns two handguns. Victim of an attempted robbery at gunpoint.
5—Female court service assistant and co-owner of auto detailing business. Late 30s. Brother is a gang member who served jail time. Cousin died in a drive-by shooting.
6—Female research specialist at a bank. Mid-40s. Called various celebrity trials a "media circus."
7—Male mechanic for Federal Express. Late 40s. Thinks "the criminal justice system is fair to everybody."
8—Male employee of county child support office. Mid-40s. Sister is a criminal defense attorney. Another sister is a probation officer. Brother is a city attorney.
9—Male facilities manager at a law firm. Mid-50s. Said he followed several celebrity trials and they were fair.
10—Male civil engineer working on a doctorate. Early 30s. Owns a shotgun for hunting, home protection. Said he lives near Spector and saw him shopping.
11—Male auto mechanic. Early 60s. Indicated that celebrities have the money to get better lawyers.
12—Male electrician at NBC Studios. Late 40s. Owns a shotgun for target practice. Nephew is with the Sheriff's Department.
........ and how much you wanna bet that the two holdouts were 5 & 6?
Dont worry, he'll be tried again and most likely convicted. The state cannot let a high profile case like this slip by. Afer all, only two out of the 12 jurors thought him not guilty.
Phil wont be smiling for long.
There must be something in the water that they give to LA jurors.
A look at the nine-man, three-woman jury in Phil Spector's murder trial, based on their jury questionnaires:
1—Male senior producer for "Dateline NBC." Early 40s. Had been assigned to cover the case and did research.
2—Male vice president of a movie company and its music division. Early 50s. Owns two "collector" handguns. Said he and his wife took firearms training and decided not to buy weapons for home defense.
3—Female assistant to a Los Angeles deputy mayor. Mid-50s. Separated for many years from husband who served time for murder and is incarcerated.
4—Male environmental health specialist for Los Angeles County. Mid-50s. Owns two handguns. Victim of an attempted robbery at gunpoint.
5—Female court service assistant and co-owner of auto detailing business. Late 30s. Brother is a gang member who served jail time. Cousin died in a drive-by shooting.
6—Female research specialist at a bank. Mid-40s. Called various celebrity trials a "media circus."
7—Male mechanic for Federal Express. Late 40s. Thinks "the criminal justice system is fair to everybody."
8—Male employee of county child support office. Mid-40s. Sister is a criminal defense attorney. Another sister is a probation officer. Brother is a city attorney.
9—Male facilities manager at a law firm. Mid-50s. Said he followed several celebrity trials and they were fair.
10—Male civil engineer working on a doctorate. Early 30s. Owns a shotgun for hunting, home protection. Said he lives near Spector and saw him shopping.
11—Male auto mechanic. Early 60s. Indicated that celebrities have the money to get better lawyers.
12—Male electrician at NBC Studios. Late 40s. Owns a shotgun for target practice. Nephew is with the Sheriff's Department.
........ and how much you wanna bet that the two holdouts were 5 & 6?
Dont worry, he'll be tried again and most likely convicted. The state cannot let a high profile case like this slip by. Afer all, only two out of the 12 jurors thought him not guilty.
Phil wont be smiling for long.
“The urge to save humanity is always a false front for the urge to rule it.” ....H. L. Mencken
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studiotwosession
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