Which Stratocaster For "That Sound"?

[doctorno]

Peter: EFTP patches? What is this?

I used my BOSS DD-20 delay with its tape echo program and the reverb of my AC30CC1. I recorded the guitar with a Groove Tubes large diaphragm condenser microphone right in front of the speaker (at the center) on a Tascam 38 reel to reel recorder. Then I transfered the tracks to the Mac and mixed the song with Logic Express adding a litte EQ and more reverb as well as Clip Distortion and Compression for the master. I am not good at mastering - the song sounds a little muffled - but that´s the best result I could achieve.

Andrew: mission accepted - but this will have to wait till another day, when I have got enough time to learn that song, arrange and record it - I had not even known it before.

[admin]

Markus: EFTP patches refer to Charlie Hall's patches for a number of digital processors. It refers to Echoes From The Past. I have sent Charlie and email in the hope that he may respond here to describe the development of the patches in more detail.

[sir_andrew_of_left_coast]

No worries, Markus... I was just having fun with words.

Besides, I can hear Atlantis at home with my... Dakota-VH.

[doctorno]

Ah, you have also got a 650 with that vibrato. Great! How have you set up the vibrato? Normally I am used to playing with the palm of my hand resting on the bridge. This does not work very well with a floating vibrato, of course. So I used to have the springs tightened and the vibrato resting on the body of the guitar - allowing me to use it for lowering the pitch only. Now I found out that this does not work for the Hank Marvin stuff and decided to change this setup to the normal "floating" position. None of these two setups seems to be ideal though ...

On a 650 your hand is in a different position compared to a Strat. With the Strat, you cannot rest the palm of your hand anywhere anyway, but with the 650 the bridge/ vibrato is right there, where the palm of your hand is ...

Your suggestion to record Atlantis with the Atlantis is a great idea. I will do that, of course. Let´s see, if I am gathering enough of this material, I will make a CD entitled "From Hamburg to Atlantis" ... recorded with my 325V59 "Hamburg" and my 650AVH "Atlantis" ...

[sir_andrew_of_left_coast]

Yes... and a great vibrato it is, too!

I have it set to "float," so I can either raise or lower the pitch. If I'm trying to mimic some Jeff Beck stuff, I'll use my palm to push down on the bridge to raise the pitch... like he does.

But most of the time, I'll wrap my ring and pinky fingers around the very end of the vibrato arm, while playing with my thumb (and, occasionally, my index finger). I changed the chrome pickguard to the 2-tier style (the 5th knob serves a master volume). The upper guard is where I usually anchor my middle and index fingers... and it keeps my hand at just the right height; so I'm not putting any unintended pressure on the vibrato arm.

[doctorno]

Andrew, I agree that the vibrato is great. I see that you are playing with your fingers. I am using a plectrum, so it is difficult to compare our technique. But I think I will get used to the "floating" setup very fast. I cannot remember when I changed this setup. It must have been shortly after I had bought the guitar. I was hardly ever using a vibrato back then, but this has changed in recent years. Currently I am more interested in lead guitar than I was back then and I am also more into clean sounds. When I bought the 650AVH I was playing a lot of high-gain rhythm-guitar stuff - for that a floating vibrato gets in your way sometimes ... but I think I can handle it now.

[doctorno]

Listening to my recording of Sleepwalk again one week after I have recorded it, I must say that the Fender Stratocaster version is probably closer to the original, while the Rickenbacker 650 version sounds better to my ears.

[admin]

There is nothing like revisiting our efforts to put things in perspective Markus.

My listening of your tracks again gives the edge to your stratocaster. Most stratocasters will get you close to "the sound" but as your tracks so ably demonstrate, the tone is in the fingers of the player. Also your echo is very good.

Your Highway One does have the hotter pickups but even so I still prefer the tone over the 650A probably because the original recording is locked tightly somewhere in the recesses of my temporal lobes.

[doctorno]

Peter, I have also thought about the Highway One pickups and tried to do a little research on the internet. There I found the Kinman Hank Marvins and the Fender Vintage pickups as well as the silent Fender Vintage pickups. I wonder which of these would be the best for this kind of music. Concerning the playability and the feel of the neck as well as the look of the finish I must say that the Highway One is a gorgeous guitar - better than most Fender Strats that cost a lot more ... really, really great value for money. Unfortunately it is not my own guitar but it belongs to the school that I am working for as a music teacher ... so I cannot borrow it out for my private recordings all the time now ...

By the way, I have replaced the strings on the Highway One for a 010-46 set now and it does not make as huge a difference as I had expected although it slightly improves the sound.

[admin]

Markus: To my ear, the pickups that come closest to Hank Marvin's early sound are the Fender 57/62. These are excellent and are in the Mexican made Fender 50s Classic Player Stratocaster. This is an outstanding guitar for under $800 US. The hardware is also a cut above that which typically comes with the MIM Stratocasters. This guitar has terrific sound and playability but with a vibrato that you may find too sensitive based on your earlier comments.

[winston]

Your work on the 650 was great. I loved the slight edge that you brought to the tune. Your phrasing was particularly well done. Overall I'll give the sound and the musicianship a 10 out of 10.

[paologregorio]

I spent the whole evening experimenting with the Strat and thanks to the hints in this forum, the useful links to the Hank Marvin videos on Youtube and to the Goran Tangring homepage, I think I have got it. I am getting much closer to that sound. It is not the equipment indeed. The main point seems to be that I need to hold my hand and the plectrum in a completely different manner than I am used to from playing my RICs and playing Gibson type guitars. When I am playing like I am used to the Strat sounds thin, but when I turn the plectrum a little, hold my hand differently and hit the strings in a different manner it works.

The right idea came after I watched Hank Marvin on Youtube (I have never actually SEEN him play before). I had always tried to get that sound with both pickups on one of my RICs or the middle pickup of the Strat while hitting the strings rather close to the bridge. Then I saw the difference. Hank clearly uses the bridge pickup most of the time but he hits the strings close to the neck pickup. I tried to do that and it did not work until I turned my hand and the plectrum a little.

Isn´t this funny? I have played guitar for almost 25 years now and always wondered how people could get along with Strats. Now I know.

The rest is quite simple:
- Fender Highway 1 Strat with bridge pickup only
- Top boost channel of the AC30, bass EQ at 6, treble EQ at 3
- BOSS DD-20 with a nice long tape echo
- Reverb on the AC30 turned to 3

I suppose if I had heavier strings on the guitar, I would be there. Never thought that it could be that easy. Again: it is not the equipment - it is your hands. I could probably even do it with a RIC, if I use the different playing technique, that I have just found out about. The only problem is that you need to have a floating vibrato on your guitar - probably a 650CVH with toaster top pickups would do the job almost as good as any Strat.

Thank you all very much for your help.

Hi Peter,

"Reverb on the AC 30 turned to 3"?! Which AC 30 are you using? I have an old one with no reverb, and a CC2X with reverb but no numbers.

[admin]

Hello Paul. My AC30 does not have numbers either. The quote to which you refer was written by Markus.

[paologregorio]

Ah, thanks. I wonder if it's one of the late 80s/early 90s models with the single control reverb.

Could you enlighten us Markus?

The CC reverb is a bit trickier with the two controls and the hi/lo drive switch. I prefer the Fender Blackface onbard single control reverb myself. I've considered having my AC30 TB with this type of reverb, but I just use my Van amps Sole Mate, which I even use with my AC 30 CC2X to avoid having to take out and plug in the footswitch for the onboard reverb- I don't use reverb on every song. The Sole Mate is already in line in my pedal board. Has anyone else used this reverb? http://www.vanamps.com/solemate.htm

Prior to buying the Sole Mate, I used a Fender stand alone reverb, but I grew weary of lugging the unit around; it was something else to carry, something else to plug in, something else to run a cable in and out of, and the footswitch caused added hum on occasion, which could be quite annoying. The sole mate is a real spring reverb. I believe it uses the same sized tank as the Fender reverb unit, but it's solid state instead of tubes. It works well enough for me, and I'm a big fan of the Fender spring reverb sound.

[doctorno]

Paul, I am using a VOX AC30 CC1. The reverb control has no numbers, of course. But the control was set to the point were a three would be, if there was a scale from 0 to 10.