Any new models in 2004 ??

philco · Post by **philco** » Tue Dec 02, 2003 3:28 pm

Technological upgrades are in order. If a bass doesn't have some graphite reinforcement, or other light, stiff, and unchanging material in the neck to support the wood and prevent warpage in a neck that extends to 24 frets, it will soon be considered substandard, totally retro, and/or in the league of cheap imports. Graphite reinforced necks in under $500 street priced modern import basses are just around the corner. Even Fender, that bastion of old style guitars and basses, is putting graphite neck reinforcement in American bass production. You can already get a good sounding and good playing import bass with EMG pickups, North American wood, decent workable hardware, CNC machining tolerances, and a figured maple top for $300 delivered. Adding graphite reinforcement for $100-$200 is child's play. Papa San the Bass Man can now do a decent job of sticking graphite rods inside a bass neck. And when he does, there won't be many of his customers having to deal with a pretty bass with a sprung neck like I have had to do with a Fender and a Rickenbacker. Fender finally saw the light, but will a company that constantly falls behind on market demand feel a need to move into the 21st century and provide 24 fret necks with graphite reinforcement.

I wish RIC would join the Hi-Tech bass wars, but from an immediate financial standpoint they do not have to......yet. They may never have to in my lifetime, preferring to stay small and selling to a niche market. Something incredibly modern of breakthrough design would be nice, though. Something that would make a Status Graphite Buzzard Bass player want to upgrade his outdated bass.

I will buy no more expensive basses without full scale 24 fret reinforced necks. I already have plenty of the old fashioned stuff, and am not a collector of past designs for their own sake. In fact, I won't even buy the cheap stuff any more unless I get a 24 fret neck and decent passive pickups.

Well, at least Ned Steinberger is back in the bass designing business. WHO WILL CHALLENGE HIM? Most mass production companies have yet to catch up to what he designed in the 70's. He can provide Papa San the Bass (and guitar) Man with the designs he needs. Papa San built me one of Ned's 70's designs for under $300, and it still rocks hard. What are the young players going to dream of owning some day?

davecondra · Post by **davecondra** » Tue Dec 02, 2003 4:03 pm

How about a C64 with a normal headstock? Or a C65 deluxe with checker binding and the crushed pearlies....(I know the pearl material is no longer available, but we are dreaming here....) And all with 21 frets...

ken_james · Post by **ken_james** » Tue Dec 02, 2003 4:22 pm

I'm sorry Dave, but I can't do that...

johnhall · Post by **johnhall** » Tue Dec 02, 2003 4:59 pm

There's lots of better alternatives to graphite, which is a monkey-see, monkey-do design solution.

Keep your eyes open to what the pioneers will bring to the market, not the followers.

rickenbrother · Post by **rickenbrother** » Tue Dec 02, 2003 5:12 pm

Mr. Hall makes a good point,
F*nd*r started putting graphite reinforcement in the necks of their basses and I don't see or hear any great improvement in the sound of their basses or the durability of the necks. Most of the brand new F*nd*r basses I see in music stores are in need of a neck adjustment and a set up. And they still have those nasty deadspots.

keb · Post by **keb** » Tue Dec 02, 2003 8:42 pm

My Carvin bass has graphite reinforcement bars and its neck definitely has more of a tendency to move around as compared to my Rick.

dave4004 · Post by **dave4004** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 9:54 am

There's lots of better alternatives to graphite, which is a monkey-see, monkey-do design solution. Keep your eyes open to what the pioneers will bring to the market, not the followers.

Can I hear an amen?

Amen!

And despite what some people claim, graphite is heavier than wood and nowhere near as stiff as steel. The supposed advantage is that its stiffness to weight ratio is better than steel.

dave4004 · Post by **dave4004** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 10:04 am

Technological upgrades are in order.

Only to those who value technology over tone.

Well, at least Ned Steinberger is back in the bass designing business....Most mass production companies have yet to catch up to what he designed in the 70's.

JMHO, but the Steinberger bass and the Spector NS are two of the ugliest, most user-unfriendly designs I've ever seen. And they sound even worse. No one is trying to catch up to them.

What are the young players going to dream of owning some day?

I dunno, but my guess is Gibsons, Rickenbackers, Fenders and Martins. Certainly not anything by Ned Steinberger.

johnhall · Post by **johnhall** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 11:06 am

Just for the record, Ned Steinberger is not only a gifted industrial designer, he's also a genuinely nice guy. Unfortunately some of his alliances haven't always worked out to his (or his design's) benefit.

He certainly has been smart enough to focus his main efforts on basses rather than guitars, as my experience is that bass players are quite receptive to new ideas and technology while guitar players are, for the most part, set in their ways and more prone to focus on what others have used.

wints · Post by **wints** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 11:55 am

I,d love to see Ric get a 24 fret bass to the market. They have had the 5 and 8 string options, but never the 24 fret option. It,s an area that has been covered by other makers, and Rics sound so good in the second octave. To me a bass still has to look good as well as sounding like I want it. That rules out a lot of todays stuff personally...So I want tone and 24....Do I have to go buy me an alembic....

rictified · Post by **rictified** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 1:35 pm

I have never liked the look of an Alembic.

shamustwin · Post by **shamustwin** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 2:01 pm

The Alembic I have is in my opinion, nice looking. Not too extreme in any dimension. It's the entry level one (I think, or was at time of purchase). I have seen more expensive models that are ugly.

philco · Post by **philco** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 3:17 pm

Some things need to be straightened out. I can certainly respect Mr. Hall for acknowledging the genius and accomplishments of his worthy competitor in the marketplace. Steinberger designs are definitely user friendly. Anybody who wantonly flames Ned Steinberger is in danger of looking like a fool to anyone who uses and likes his instruments. Anybody who handles an OLP SB4 will instantly recognize it as an excellent instrument to start a young player out on. Light weight, small size, slim fast neck, good tone, good balance, affordable price, and an attractive copy of a bass likely played by one of their bass idols. They would probably want a real Spector afterwards. Go to Harmony Central and look at the reviews of the Spector NS American series basses and compare them to the Rickenbacker 4000 series, IF YOU DARE. See how the overall ratings compare, and what Spector owners think of their bass compared to all the others they have owned. My Marshall bass amp seems to like the SB4 better than any other bass I have, so you need to try a bass on different amps before you condemn it. OLP did not license the Spector NS series design because it was a dud. Is the Ernie Ball Sting Ray a dud also? If so, then OLP will fail for choosing duds to copy.

Maybe somebody in England would dare go to John Entwistle's grave and inscribe: Here lies a Monkey See, Monkey Do Bass Player that used a ****** Monkey See, Monkey Do graphite bass? I THINK NOT!!! John Entwistle dumped Alembic and Warwick as his pro touring bass supplier because the Status Graphite Buzzard Bass did the job better for him. It is INCREDIBLY strong because it is of monocoque construction, like an airplane body. Fender necks are NOT. Don't confuse materials with structural design. Is there some jealousy because the world's greatest rock bassist used an English graphite bass? The Status Graphite bass tone may seem a bit strange, but it definitely does NOT suck. Neither does Steinberger or Spector bass tone.

Tone and technology are NOT mutually exclusive, AND.......I definitely said graphite OR some other material. Wood is NOT lighter than graphite where structural strength and rigidity are concerned. We are NOT weighing similar cubic quantities of the materials here!!! Go cast a graphite flyrod and a bamboo flyrod of the same length designed for the same line weight. Graphite wins the weight war hands down, and casts further as well, lasts longer, resists taking a set in storage, and costs a fraction as much. Graphite guitars and basses can also be much lighter than wooden equivalents, as the interior of the necks and bodies can be foam or other filler to layer the graphite cloth over. You need FAR less graphite than wood to build an instrument. Boron or kevlar are other materials with possibilities.

Steinberger basses and guitars are among the most recorded in music history. Many an artist that endorsed and used other brands on stage used Steinbergers in the recording studio. Eddie Van Halen was one of them. You should not automatically assume what is seen on stage is used in the studio. Consider this people: An instrument that sounds ****** on YOUR amp may just be showing what the amp is really like. It's always a possibility.

Andrew, I'm glad to see that somebody else is jumping on the 24 fret neck bandwagon. And yes, Rickenbacker basses DO sound good high on the neck, SO A 24 FRET RICK BASS SEEMS TO BE IN ORDER?

4003seagreen · Post by **4003seagreen** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 3:46 pm

I vote for a LTD Edition 4005 model in Green Glo (special color for 2004).

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 4:11 pm

Entwhistle sounded a lot better with a p-bass than the buzzard ... listen to live at leeds and then left for live ... the first is a p-bass and the second is the buzzard ...

I have a Schecter C5 and an Ibanez SR 305 DX and I have played Spectors and Warwicks ... they are all fine active 24 fret basses, but my 4003s5 beats them all ...

Also the bass pod can make a bad amp sound good and a good amp sound great ...