Music Theory

[Tylendal]

the guitarist in my band told me a cool thing he learned about scales once

he said that scales are fluid chords, and chords are solid scales

[sloop_john_b]

the guitarist in my band told me a cool thing he learned about scales once

he said that scales are fluid chords, and chords are solid scales

Well, no, not really.

Next time you're at a piano, try this: count out eight white keys in a row, and play them all at the same time. It's not going to sound very nice, or very chord-like. It's basically going to sound like a messy mash-up of notes. What you're doing is playing a scale as if it were a chord.

Say you play a C major chord. C-E-G. Three notes do not make a scale! That's simply a triad.

[jdogric12]

JB is absolutely correct. But I think there is still some usefulness in the general concept being described in that initial statement. I kind of like it.

[Tylendal]

i meant to say 'Like' but you get the idea,
chords are "kinda like" solid scales and that scales are "kinda like" fluid chords,

of course three notes don't make a scale, but you have many triads right? your diminished triads and your minor triads, and they all use different notes from the scale that don't appear in your major triad, so you can think of a scale as all of your different triads all lumped together

[charlyg]

Well, what about chords being basically a pentatonic scale?

[sloop_john_b]

Well, what about chords being basically a pentatonic scale?

If you take the notes in a pentatonic scale, whether it be major or minor pent., and play them all together as a chord, they may be slightly more useful and slightly less mashed-up sounding then playing a full seven note scale as a chord, but let's look at the notes of say, C Minor Pentatonic: C-D-Eb-G-Ab.

C-Eb-G make up a C minor chord, so you've got one in there. But the D and Ab can't be ignored, and they add a 6th and 9th (or 2nd) tonality to the chord that makes it neither here nor there. These chords are kind of "special effects" but are basically never used as part of a harmony or chord progression - perhaps just as a special suspension for a bit of a sour tonality.

In C Minor Pent, we also have A-C-Eb-G, which is Am7b5 or a half-diminished. But once again, having that odd D floating in there effects the tonality of the chord so that it's really nothing distinctive.

[charlyg]

I knew you were gonna get me with minors and such. I threw basically in there to cover my bases!!


Still in all, I suppose......close but no cigar.

[Tylendal]

then playing a full seven note scale as a chord

I never said anything about playing a full seven note scale as a chord, sheesh

true three notes do not make a scale, but they are derived from the scale in question

[jdogric12]

Minor pentatonic (barely a scale to me anyway) is 1 3 4 5 7 (1). So for C minor that's C Eb F G Bb (C). Carry on my brethren and sistren. Much love, The Dog.

[sloop_john_b]

then playing a full seven note scale as a chord

I never said anything about playing a full seven note scale as a chord, sheesh

true three notes do not make a scale, but they are derived from the scale in question

Why even say scale though? Chords aren't scales. Chords are comprised of set intervals within scales. It's really vague and simplistic to say "A C chord is some of the C scale."

[charlyg]

Ya mean like a C major scale is vague and simplistic when you say it is part of the C chromatic scale..

I know, bad attempt at a funny.........

[Tylendal]

ok, i'm sorry what i said was not 'left brain' and technical enough to please you jb,

i realise you are a music major, but sometimes you have to pull back your logic and 'left brain' logical learnin's and realize there is more than one way to skin a cat

in jazz or rock, does the bassist not play(part of at least) a c major scale over the guitarist or pianists c chord? or a c minor scale over a c minor chord?

if you wanted to look at it on the quantum level, what i am saying is just like how light is simultaneously both a wave and a particle in quantum physics, many ppl said that it just wasn't so, but current physics says that it is, and that the sheer act of observing light causes it to change from particle to wave or vice versa

so in a quantum sense
chords are the particles of music, and scales are the waves and whether you agree with me or not depends on the observer

[charlyg]

I wouldn't go that far either. I'm on JB's side, it doesn't reallly help all that much. It kinda goes without saying that chords are made up from some of the notes of the scale.

[Tylendal]

It kinda goes without saying that chords are made up from some of the notes of the scale.

well, if you were to read what i've written, then you would understand that this is exactly what i'm saying

chords or double stops are the bare minimum of simultaneous notes that you need to determine whether it a given chord is major or minor or augmented or diminished or what have you
and scales by nature are fluid, the notes aren't sounded simultaneously, so the brain needs more of them to show the relationship of one note to the previous note, but the brain can recognize that it is major or minor

how about this, chords are the mp3's of scales, you compress a scale, and you lose some bits

[charlyg]

Nah, I still ain't buyin it. It doesn't really get you any further down the road theory wise. I learned MUCH more looking at pentatonic scales in relation to chords from these two yokels! jb and jdog that is! Whether or not that's what they were teachin.........